Doesn't warrant one.
come on, sure it does. there have been lots of offhand slams in this thread, but no thoughtful criticism. which makes the collective distaste seem sort of toothless and silly, like it's more a knee-jerk, prejudicial reaction to the persona* than a meaningful evaluation of the music
* like maybe just guys hating on "girly shit", perennial human theme
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 21:48 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah def the problem here is people dismissing this outright than supporting fashion mags masquerading as rap experts hitting REPOST REPOST REPOST because they see internet dollar signs whenever a cute white girl says the n-word
― thommys got bendz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 12 May 2012 22:24 (twelve years ago) link
i have close to zero interest in this music but can i just ask - are the lyrics upthread real or made up?
― the late great, Saturday, 12 May 2012 22:38 (twelve years ago) link
"but i gotta be true to my art / and soon you'll be exactly like elizabeth smart"
this just sounds like the sort of awful awkward shit i have to listen to when humanities teachers are like "oh yeah, sure you guys can do a rap video for your history presentation"
― the late great, Saturday, 12 May 2012 22:43 (twelve years ago) link
i do agree in that if there's one thing worse than a fashion magazine, it's a fucking "rap expert". fuck anybody who thinks people who have to pass some kind of genre expertise test before their interest & enthusiasm becomes valid. different people like different things for different reasons, big surprise.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 22:50 (twelve years ago) link
I personally like MY rap music based on what gives hueg boners to the "I like Wu Tang and Gilt Group" paedo manchildren that are propping up the careers of white people who can't rap but look good doing it
― thommys got bendz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 12 May 2012 22:58 (twelve years ago) link
lol, i assume that this shit mostly appeals to kids and specifically to girls, not to "paedo manchildren". but who knows?
the hostility of certain ILX clubs to things that are seized upon and circulated by "the wrong people" for "the wrong reasons" never fails to baffle me
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 22:59 (twelve years ago) link
Can't believe people on a music message board would value the opinions of experts.
― thommys got bendz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:00 (twelve years ago) link
also, i grew up with punk, so phrases like "can't rap" don't resonate much for me. i'm more interested in what people do within their limitations than in technique for its own sake (though i definitely appreciate technique).
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:01 (twelve years ago) link
Let me tell you about Lil B then
― thommys got bendz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:01 (twelve years ago) link
the only thing i'm an expert on is knowing what i like, though i'm building strong skills in challops and appearing open-minded
― the late great, Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:03 (twelve years ago) link
contenderizer you are being a little bit too uncynical imo
― flopson, Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:04 (twelve years ago) link
the fact that someone is up on every punk rock record ever made doesn't make their opinion of spiral scratch any more valid to me than anyone else's. the expert can drop knowledge and make connections in ways that the novice can't match, and that's great, but taste isn't validated by expertise or invalidated by its absence. it just is. lots of vastly knowledgeable experts have shitty ideas, or no ideas at all. and relative novices often have interesting things to say. imo.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:07 (twelve years ago) link
lol, i sometimes like lil b. don't have the patience to wade through the torrent though.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:08 (twelve years ago) link
cant u just admit that this shit sucks! i know you think it sucks!!
― flopson, Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:08 (twelve years ago) link
LOL
― the late great, Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
also it is hilarious & perfect that unperson of all people likes this
― flopson, Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:12 (twelve years ago) link
re: expertise, i think teens would be a better set of "experts" to consult on the worthiness of this shit than professional rap critics, who i assume would reject it out of hand
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:13 (twelve years ago) link
listening to everything teenagers tell you in a transparent effort to appear down is not the wave
― man down (D-40), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:16 (twelve years ago) link
otm
― flopson, Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:16 (twelve years ago) link
also d'uh some teens will like this, others won't
― flopson, Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:17 (twelve years ago) link
some of the teens who like it will be cool inevitably but none of the adults or music critics who do will be
"david shapiro" is like a lump of cancer cells that became sentient and then decided to spend its time writing blog posts about how cancer is misunderstood.
― jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:24 (twelve years ago) link
ouch
― the late great, Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:24 (twelve years ago) link
really though aren't all humans kind of like a lump of cancer cells that became sentient and then decided to spend its time writing blog posts about how cancer is misunderstood?
― the late great, Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:26 (twelve years ago) link
"when i finally decided to kill myself, i thought about an ilm post that finally seemed to sum up humanity for me."
― jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:27 (twelve years ago) link
no way! that's a gold star cancer there.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:30 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, maybe, but i'm not into it, so i'm not too fussed.
sure, some teens will be into kitty pryde while others won't. that much is obvious enough. i meant that this strikes me as music made by and for teens, thus best evaluated by them, according to whatever weird teenage criteria they have bouncing around in their heads. when they group up, they'll re-evaluate it, and only then will we get any useful perspective on it.
of course grown-ups in the here and now will have and express opinions about it, too. we'll do this because we can't help ourselves, but grown-up opinion seems almost completely irrelevant. this music isn't for us, so the fact that many of us will hate it is no more interesting to me than the fact that a few will inevitably like it (though the former do seem a bit less creepy).
^ a weird stance to take, i guess, esp since i do actively hate a lot of teen shit - ICP, for instance. in this particular case, though, the opinions of adults (adult men, especially) seem completely beside the point.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:32 (twelve years ago) link
also, i get really grossed out then straight guys who like attractive women fault attractive women for the success their appearance (arguably) earns them. something fucked about that dynamic.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:34 (twelve years ago) link
then = when
enjoy the implication that "rap experts" are different in this
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:35 (twelve years ago) link
its pop music. its all 'teen shit'
― man down (D-40), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:39 (twelve years ago) link
think it's ridiculous seeing grown-ass music writers, the likes of whom may have championed, say, rock n roll, girl groups, pop punk, pop, etc, write off music for being too teenage, or imply it's inappropriate to see the relevance in it because you're too old. I mean, if you follow pop as an adult, then you're kind of being a manchild by that logic yourself
the real issue I think is some people find it outside of the boundaries of what they're equipped to write about anymore so it pisses them off
― Chris S, Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:45 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, to varying degrees. from where i stand (sit) as a grown-ass man, this seems much farther away from my world & concerns than most pop. like i can kind of relate to odd future, for instance, maybe cuz i was a suburban teenage boy myself. same goes for skrillex, in its way. and i can relate to pop music made by older women when it describes a world i'm familiar with and/or interested in. but this is just another planet. and i invite the denizens of that planet to have at it, cuz i can't imagine that rap experts will be any better equipped to negotiate it than i am.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:48 (twelve years ago) link
ugh, good job being terrible about talking about everything, ilx
― Mordy, Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:50 (twelve years ago) link
you know what's crazy tho is there are like....teenage girls who are making good rap music and kitty pryde isn't one them
― The Reverend, Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:59 (twelve years ago) link
maybe i'm not paying close enough attention and 'kitty pryde' just got a number one record release, the front cover of RS, and a favorable P4k review so a ton of male music critics screaming about how mediocre she is on ilx is not creepy at all.
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:01 (twelve years ago) link
'screaming'
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:03 (twelve years ago) link
i wish someone would wipe a magnet on the fucking internet and erase it― thommys got bendz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:32 PM (2 days ago)
― thommys got bendz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:32 PM (2 days ago)
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:03 (twelve years ago) link
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/554272_3944920586681_1390008977_33586369_1383630240_n.jpg
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:04 (twelve years ago) link
if you're getting all hot defending your privilege to throw an internet tantrum bc ppl like something you don't, u should just know in advance that it's nagl
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:07 (twelve years ago) link
― Chris S, Saturday, May 12, 2012 6:45 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i write about lots of teen artists. good ones, who make good songs. acting like theres some kind of mysterious generational divide that grown folks cant possibly understand is bizarre.
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:08 (twelve years ago) link
― Mordy, Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:07 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
maybe YOURE the one throwing the internet tantrum ...! hmmmmmmmm
think it's okay to criticize music made by teenagers for being teenage, i think it's pretty clear that there's stuff "for kids" that reflects themes adults can relate to (finding nemo) and stuff "for kids" that's just bullshit for small minds (gi joe), similarly i think there's stuff by teenagers that has depth and stuff that doesn't
the idea that teenagers shouldn't be judged by adult standards is just ... teenage
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:08 (twelve years ago) link
i guess i'm kind of doing what chris s was complaining about, but stepping back and recusing myself instead of getting pissed off and hating. i think a lot of teen musical culture gets short shrift from adult critics, whether it be nu-metal, emo, drop-driven dubstep or "tumblr rap".
that's not particularly surprising. we like music when it affirms our values and aesthetics, dislike it when it doesn't. once we realize that our values and aesthetics are themselves open to question, it becomes very hard to say what's good or bad in any final sense. we're left only with "i like it" or "i don't", and that doesn't carry much weight beyond the circle of people who happen to share our point of view.
i can see exactly who might like this music and why. i can also see the vast gulf between that sensibility and my own. since i have no negative feelings toward planet teengirl as a culture, i don't hate this music. there are a few things about it that i appreciate, and a bunch that irritate me. mostly, though, i just see that it isn't for me.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:09 (twelve years ago) link
or "tumblr rap".
this isnt actually a big popular movement like dubstep or emo tho. its critical circle jerk ish. kitty pryde isnt popular (yet)
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:13 (twelve years ago) link
you know what's crazy tho is there are like....teenage girls who are making good rap music and kitty pryde isn't one them― The Reverend, Saturday, May 12, 2012 4:59 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinki write about lots of teen artists. good ones, who make good songs. ― man down (D-40), Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:08 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― The Reverend, Saturday, May 12, 2012 4:59 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i write about lots of teen artists. good ones, who make good songs.
― man down (D-40), Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:08 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this strikes me as naive. you guys are just saying that there are teenage girls who make music that seems "good" according to your values, perhaps according to "established rap values" or w/e. that's fine, but it doesn't mean that other music can't be just as successful according to other standards.
i can see why intelligent people (especially teens, and perhaps especially teen girls) might view kitty pryde as "good" according to radically different criteria. i don't think that these other points of view are any less valid than that of rap experts - even when it comes to something that's ostensibly "rap music".
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:15 (twelve years ago) link
who am i to say my dog shouldn't eat his own poop? after all, he has radically different criteria than me.
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:16 (twelve years ago) link
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:15 PM (13 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is moronic bro. im just arguing that this mystical 'teenness' doesn't make them any more immune from critical analysis than any other style of music.
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:17 (twelve years ago) link