i love them both, but jesus, aphex, easily
― Crackle Box, Friday, 4 May 2012 10:32 (twelve years ago) link
yeah the whole "this is so fucking advanced" attitude kills me
― That's a pretty funky dance, Garfield. Show me how you do it. (frogbs), Friday, 4 May 2012 13:36 (twelve years ago) link
the only people that listen to this in America are pretty much Tool fans
― suidavyvan eht nioj (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 4 May 2012 13:39 (twelve years ago) link
what does that even mean, Whiney
― That's a pretty funky dance, Garfield. Show me how you do it. (frogbs), Friday, 4 May 2012 14:05 (twelve years ago) link
via idm dude
"Contemporary electronic music is plagued by near-universal adherence to boundaries and rules: the 4/4 dictum, standard half-dozen effects, groove fascism, dumbed-down melody and harmony, limited sonic palette, and so on. Trembling before rules stifles compositional chance-taking, which causes the dreaded “same old, same old” effect. It’s too rare these days to listen to a new track and think, “I’ve never heard anything like this before.”
That’s because e-musical creators have become too proper and boundary-kowtowing. Don’t fall into the well-behaved composer trap! You and your listeners deserve better. Cultivate, instead, a healthy disrespect for boundaries."
― Crackle Box, Friday, 4 May 2012 14:28 (twelve years ago) link
Hahaha! I'd say "the 4/4 dictum, standard half-dozen effects, groove fascism, dumbed-down melody and harmony, limited sonic palette, and so on" produced 10 times more good music than IDM ever did.
― Tuomas, Friday, 4 May 2012 14:36 (twelve years ago) link
I'd agree with that, but "healthy disrepect for boundries" is the key here. Sometimes I feel guys like Venetian Snares and Squarepusher do these things just to do them. At least when Autechre breaks boundries they do so with some internal logic.
I do hate that reasoning because it's so easy to say "maybe seek out some better music, fuckhead?" I mean people extolling the virtues of their favorite music maybe shouldn't be comparing it to Lady Gaga or the Black Eyed Peas, which is the type of music they seem to reference above.
― That's a pretty funky dance, Garfield. Show me how you do it. (frogbs), Friday, 4 May 2012 14:45 (twelve years ago) link
As someone who came to electronic music via IDM, I remember thinking that the (misappropriated) "4/4" styles of house and techno were a bit boring (I would even have gone so far as to say "dumb" at the time). My attitude back then was akin to that of a prog fan sneering at contemporary 70s rock - that it lacked refinement, imagination, musicianship etc... But that wasn't what originally appealed to me about things like Aphex Twin and Autechre - it was the sheer shock of the new, and I soon realised that IDM was starting to ossify into about 3-4 clear categories defined by the major Warp acts. So while Autechre, Aphex, BoC and Plaid WERE making exciting, original music, there were umpteen snooty little bedroom producers making carbon copies of those sounds whilst looking down on an entire universe of electronic music for being "samey". The reason Aphex and Autechre are great is because they sounded like nothing else and that there was method to their madness.
― Scary Move 4 (dog latin), Friday, 4 May 2012 15:20 (twelve years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Monday, 7 May 2012 00:01 (twelve years ago) link
KitevsPill, what happened to the i's in your second post?
― Pot Leeedom (Leee), Monday, 7 May 2012 01:03 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0131/index.htm
― koogs, Monday, 7 May 2012 08:13 (twelve years ago) link
You've got to be careful with your 'i's in Turkey: http://gizmodo.com/382026/a-cellphones-missing-dot-kills-two-people-puts-three-more-in-jail(sorry for depressing off-topic link)
― instant coffee happening between us (a passing spacecadet), Monday, 7 May 2012 09:16 (twelve years ago) link
autechre have nothing as overwhelming (for me) as 'saw II', but in the long run ('amber', 'tri repetae' or even 'confield') they win. besides, they're also better remixers.
― rusty_allen, Monday, 7 May 2012 13:45 (twelve years ago) link
how do people listen to SAWII? all at once or in chunks? i've always found it overwhelming in a bad way.
― guess it's Honker Burger tonight...#fml (frogbs), Monday, 7 May 2012 13:48 (twelve years ago) link
passively? How do people listen to Perlence Subrange 6-36?
― Lowell N. Behold'n, Monday, 7 May 2012 21:19 (twelve years ago) link
i want twelve eps of autechre's take on analord acid.
― Lowell N. Behold'n, Monday, 7 May 2012 21:23 (twelve years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:01 (twelve years ago) link
srsly surprised, kind of pleased kind of disappointed cuz u know ilm
― nakhchivan, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:25 (twelve years ago) link
After AE rolling the last several tronica polls, I'm not too surprised.
Frankly, I prefer "Perlence Subrange 6-36" to SAWII (though I probably only have the US version).
― Pot Leeedom (Leee), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 02:33 (twelve years ago) link
42 cloth eared fools
― Crackle Box, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 10:58 (twelve years ago) link
Can't believe I'm in the majority, what a disaster for anti-populism.
― Touché Gödel (ledge), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 11:01 (twelve years ago) link
this is versus gd afx twin tho, leee
― nakhchivan, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 12:06 (twelve years ago) link
the same aphex twin who nearly won in this poll
who is your favourite among these celebrated ppl named on ilx site new answers?
vs godard, kelis, other ilx faves
― nakhchivan, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 12:07 (twelve years ago) link
shit i missed this :(
Aphex Twin classic or Dud?
;)
― Ludo, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 12:38 (twelve years ago) link
(oh the link disappeared, prolly better that way)
― Ludo, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 12:39 (twelve years ago) link
Eh, not an RDJ fan much to begin with.
Anyway, at this rate, we could poll Autechre vs. this kitten and AE would win.
― Pot Leeedom (Leee), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 04:46 (twelve years ago) link
i like both autechre and aphex a lot (meaning i have like ten releases from each that i never listen to) but autechre winning it seems rather wrong imo
― the late great, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 06:41 (twelve years ago) link
kinda like picking a really fine quality knife over a whole drawer of good cutlery
― the late great, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 06:42 (twelve years ago) link
Is that analogy suggesting that AE's discography is one big peak and then nothing? There's good cutlery in AE's drawer. Some of the most beautiful ambient stuff in early career, sure, but I think I've listened even more to the chaotic Drafts and especially my favorite, the (relatively speaking) underrated Untilted - so funky, so fun. Lots of different aspects to them. Sure Aphex has the ambient works and his drill and bass, but he's more of a one trick guy within those two categories. Autechre's tried out different ideas for each of their albums in their chaotic, 'difficult' phase. Which most people don't appreciate as much as their earlier stuff, but back then as well there was a sense of progression and innovation for each album.
― abcfsk, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 07:03 (twelve years ago) link
Aphex's stuff has aged much worse than Autechre's - hate to say it but it's true. A lot of the values expressed in Aphex's music: extreme eclecticism, confrontational humour (paedo jokes and whatnot), DIY production, seem very much of their time. Autechre lacked all these, which to many 90s listeners made them seem a little dry and faceless - the typical bedroom technobods getting a sallow tan from their computer screens etc.. Whereas Aphex was always the cheeky, pranksterish face of leftfield electronica - terrorising his poor ma and pa with music made in a a tank or a bank, dressed up as a teddy, screaming at pensioners whilst simultaneously being compared to Mozart in the broadsheet supplements. People are more attuned to the idea of the "serious" techno producer these days I guess.There's no social stigma surrounding computers and the internet like there was in the nineties (no longer simply the domain of geeks). And lyrics like "ooh you dirty little boy" or "tampax tampax tampax" aren't so much irreverent as embarrassing in today's landscape. Aphex Twin was the most up to date musician of his time whereas Autechre's feet were planted firmly in the future, so much so that a lot of their sounds only make sense years after the fact (I'm still getting my head around Confield tbh).
― Scary Move 4 (dog latin), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 09:36 (twelve years ago) link
http://media.soundonsound.com/sos/apr04/images/autechremax2.l.jpg
vs
http://www.analoguesolutions.org.uk/concussor/aspics/conc2.jpg
― Crackle Box, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 10:21 (twelve years ago) link
yes! and there must be a million knob-twiddlers out there, how many people are doing incomprehensible stuff with nasa-level control panels? i guess there's a bunch of ae copyists churning out identikit max/msp stuff but that's not what i mean. sean or rob once said that with all the software out there there's no reason for anyone to sound like anyone else. it's a beautiful dream.
― Touché Gödel (ledge), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 10:31 (twelve years ago) link
I've never heard an Autchre melody that had anywhere near the affect on my that Flim has.
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 10:36 (twelve years ago) link
obv melodic beauty is in the ear of the beholder but for me ae have melodies coming out of the wazoo, e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zix0nqrRrJ4
― Touché Gödel (ledge), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 10:41 (twelve years ago) link
Sicko, Flim is lovely, but I'd say the middle section of Arch Carrier when the strings swell into the mix is as (if not more) affecting. Then there's the melody on Pir. What about the codas to GarbageMx, Piezo, Cichli etc? All big contenders in my book. I used to have one of those stereos with QSurround (remember that?) which somehow only ever worked with Autechre albums.
― Scary Move 4 (dog latin), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 10:48 (twelve years ago) link
i dunno dog latin, autechre sound waaaaaaay more dated to my ears. nth generation dsp fuckery and all that pseduo random nonsense seems so early 00s and isn't something that i think will ever make a big comeback. compared to crusty old tape saturated analogue techno which is one of my favourite sounds and never gets old, infact in the current context of techno, those early AFX releases sound better than ever. cf lots of recent surgeon dj sets.
it almost seems like autechre spent all their time trying to make their music random and alive in a way that just naturally happens when you walk away from the computer and start having fun and plugging things in to things. i think aphex got on to that vibe earlier than everyone else.
― Crackle Box, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 10:48 (twelve years ago) link
There's a bit in this Steve Albini AMA on reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/td90c/i_am_steve_albini_ask_me_anything/) that almost veers close to this, Crackle Box:
"Digital recording systems engender a kind of production that is overly concerned with editing and manipulating the sound after recording, rather than concentrating on recording music in a flattering manner to begin with. I don't like the way this perspective tends to flatten out performance nuance. That's the aesthetic problem I have with it."
Obviously 'performance nuance' is v. different between Jesus Lizard and Aphex Twin, but I'd wager that AFX and JL are closer in those terms than AE and JL.
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 11:00 (twelve years ago) link
nasa level control panels? that's just a bunch of controllers. i don't hear anything particularly complex in autechre's music, processing wise. especially compared to the acedemics. but then again, why would they attempt that kind of complexity, they're making 'pop music' and those kind of max/msp projects take years.
i much prefer the complexity that arises with a fluctuating current running through wires and modules and your jamming around then your girlfriend puts the washing machine on everything drops a quarter tone for a second and then all your lfos and envelopes go a bit funny. ha. now that's randomness.
― Crackle Box, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 11:01 (twelve years ago) link
ledge, that idm dude i quoted upthread has this blog:
http://rachmiel.org/blog/
he's an instrument designer, very good software instruments, and he's quite passionate about all the software out there 'there's no reason for anyone to sound like anyone else. it's a beautiful dream' stuff.
― Crackle Box, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 11:05 (twelve years ago) link
xxpost Ae always insisted that there was nothing random about their music. Maybe the kind of bangin' analogue techno of Aphex's "Classics" R&S era is having a resurgence, but that's natural retromania at work. Who's to say drill'n'bass won't make a comeback at some point in the next 5-10 years?
If the DSP-fuckery thing sounds early-00's it's because so many IDM bandwagonjumpers were copping Ae's style at that point that the market became saturated and collapsed in on itself (it hurt Ae very badly during their Draft/Untilted days). But they'd been working on and honing that sound since as far back as Chiastic Slide in the mid-90s. I find something like Cichli or Rae have a greater a emotional impact today than, say, 4 or Girl/Boy Song, which I've always loved but offer diminishing returns on the whole. Of course your experience may differ. I certainly overplayed a lot of Twin back then, to the point I prob don't need to listen to much of his work again.
― Scary Move 4 (dog latin), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 11:05 (twelve years ago) link
yeh that's why i said pseudo randomness, i.e they're always creating relationships between controller data to achieve a certain kind of complexity that most people interpret as sounding 'random'. i just feel like their music sounds too much like processes at work and that doesn't really excite me. i have the same aversion to a lot of serial music.
i guess someone like keith fullerton whitman is a well known example of someone who adopts similar techniques but his music seems to transcend the process. or something. lol. this is all wank, aphex just makes decent tunes innit
― Crackle Box, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 11:24 (twelve years ago) link
of course the flipside of 'no-one should sound like anyone else' is that everyone makes music that only they want to hear - i think this might be evinced by that dudes blog (thx for link anyway though).
― Touché Gödel (ledge), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 11:28 (twelve years ago) link
CB - see I like the approach Autechre take here (and appreciate Aphex's alternative route). For me, Autechre really do take the "music is math" philosophy to its logical conclusion - the idea that machines, given the right input, can create their own art that somehow creates an impact on the organic human mind. It's like machines in a factory suddenly coming together to make a rhythm, or someone hitting on that magic number of monkeys required to write the perfect novel. I find it fascinating to think that algorithms and generative processes could move me so much, and often imagine Ae as scientists/mathematicians rather than composers, feeding numbers into the loop until it creates a mesmerising fractal image of infinite beauty - every element, be it awkward or jarring or perfect, held in a symbiotic relationship with the rest.
That's pretty far-fetched, but it's cool to think about.
― Scary Move 4 (dog latin), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 11:47 (twelve years ago) link
To be honest, editing and manipulating the sound after recording, and not the performance, is what electronic music is all about. The above comment may apply to rock bands, but certainly not to techno; when electronic acts liked The Prodigy started acting like they were a rock band, that's when things started to go wrong.
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 12:52 (twelve years ago) link
my analogy was meant to imply that
1. autechre are a one-trick pony who do one thing well
2. aphex has a much wider range and has done many things well
― the late great, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:16 (twelve years ago) link
Tuomas and the late great OTM.
― Scary Move 4 (dog latin), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:19 (twelve years ago) link
A most unlikely kids book.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:19 (twelve years ago) link
It's a tempting analogy but I agree with abcfsk, there's actually a lot of range to their work. Not an awful lot in common between Amber and LP5 and Confield.
― Touché Gödel (ledge), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:29 (twelve years ago) link
xxp I don't agree with that at all, in fact if anything I'd switch the two
― frogbs, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:37 (twelve years ago) link
Is it just me, or is "Clipper" (and I guess other bits of "Tri Repetae") the closes Autechre came to sounding a lot like Aphex, or at least not dissimilar? After that it was really off to the races for the duo.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 14:05 (twelve years ago) link
good autechre article for the geeks
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr04/articles/autechre.htm
<3
"The worst things are the timeline sequencers where you can see on the screen what's coming up. That really f**ks with your head when you're listening."
― Crackle Box, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 16:07 (twelve years ago) link
one prominent example would be photek - that's basically what he was doing from 2000 to 2010
another two i know about by name are neil landstrumm, who did sound for playstation games iirc, and gold chains, who basically quit recording to do sound design for mtv promo spots
― the late great, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 16:19 (twelve years ago) link
http://oi45.tinypic.com/289m0e8.jpg
― am0n, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 16:40 (twelve years ago) link
ae PWND AGANE by afx
http://www.synthgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/aphex_face.png
― the late great, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:08 (twelve years ago) link
tlg PWND AGANE by SYNTHGEAR
worth a click through though
― the late great, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:10 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.bastwood.com/?page_id=10
― the late great, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:11 (twelve years ago) link
i remember that. the venetian snares one cracked me up
― am0n, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:31 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i remember hearing about that and thinking it was photoshopped, but sure enough
― frogbs, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 20:15 (twelve years ago) link
that face is great. and it sounds otherworldly.
the live face recognition / remapping thing also fantastic.
but i still voted ae.
― koogs, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 22:34 (twelve years ago) link
Is it just me, or is "Clipper" (and I guess other bits of "Tri Repetae") the closes Autechre came to sounding a lot like Aphex, or at least not dissimilar?
Not to me. I always thought that Amber was their most Aphexy album.
― Pot Leeedom (Leee), Thursday, 10 May 2012 03:54 (twelve years ago) link
In fact, I still think that "Nil" sounds an awful lot like "Schottkey 7th Path."
― Pot Leeedom (Leee), Thursday, 10 May 2012 03:56 (twelve years ago) link
Keynell
― hot slag (lukas), Thursday, 10 May 2012 05:11 (twelve years ago) link
... is awesome
― Touché Gödel (ledge), Thursday, 10 May 2012 08:41 (twelve years ago) link
really like the lego feet EPs, probably more than any gescom except the immortal detroit techno masterpiece that is TWO OF
― the late great, Thursday, 10 May 2012 14:34 (twelve years ago) link
Hah, listened to Confield for the first time in ages, and sure, I can see why folks might think that one is taking the piss.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 10 May 2012 14:35 (twelve years ago) link
oi mates some granular synthesis is all over me bloody techno lp im going to make me an orrible post about it to me ilxor chums
― tebow kortwa (nakhchivan), Thursday, 10 May 2012 14:37 (twelve years ago) link