a poll: the miseducation of lauryn hill

is she still doing everything super rawked out

pretty massively altered arrangements w/crunching guitars but i wouldn't really call it super rawked out - her playing fast & loose with the song structures seemed more important

from "ex factor" on she played everything pretty straight though

[improv about her dress falling down]

there's a great 12" version iirc

We got fewer things off Miseducation, more Fugees stuff, including a I Only Have Eyes For You --> Zealots bit that was jaw dropping and also the Turn Your Lights Down Low duet with Marley, but damn if I wouldn't kill to hear the miseducation ballads live.

title track getting 0 votes is wrong

^ so wrong.

i'm listening to it right now. i've been brought close to tears by this song at times.

I went to see Lauryn Hill at Bonnaroo this past weekend, as much out of curiosity as anything else. And holy cow. She was great! Best show of the whole festival, hands down. (This was an opinion shared by all of my friends, some of whom were fans and some of whom didn't even know who she was.) It was heavy on the hits, both Fugees and Miseducation, but she completely rearranged all of the songs -- tore them apart, turned them into suites that moved between blaring rock and reggae and hip-hop and jazzy vocal arrangements, then put them back together with these massively powerful climaxes and codas. She had a good band, and she was a great bandleader, totally on point and fierce.

I was pretty stunned.

(And I didn't even see her songs later that night with the Skrillex superjam, but she apparently tore that up, too.)

i'm seeing her tonight!! VERY excited to hear that she's been great lately

Yeah, I mean, she may have off nights -- who knows? But if you get anything like what we saw, it will be a good time.

heard this on the radio bitd but then couldn't find out which mix it was so had to buy the 12" and then the CD! those costly pre-internet days..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEle7u9h3L4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVz9otZJ3U0&feature=kp

was really quite impressed w/ her last night. (i am still somewhat deaf since the show was super loud -- probably more suitable for an outdoor festival than an indoor venue in that respect.) she was on fire vocally and the new arrangements were constantly surprising and completely energizing. the audience really went crazy for the fugees hits that she performed, which i'd say were the highlights of the night. i don't think the big, drawn-out, climactic, rockish arrangements worked for every song -- "ex-factor" was lacking in some of its emotional impact and seemed overlong -- but overall i think they landed in perfect territory between familiarity and novelty. i felt a huge chill just rush through my whole body during the opening guitar solo of "to zion". (i expect not everyone will like what was done to the songs -- one of the girls near me was actually pleading for "no more reggae" at one point.)

but anyway! very interesting and entertaining show, def recommended if you get the chance

one of the girls near me was actually pleading for "no more reggae" at one point

Yeah, there was a little grumbling at the show I was at -- "Why's she remixing all her songs?" But the overall response was massively positive.

I was impressed by the arrangements even when I didn't love them, because it takes chutzpah to mess with people's expectations like that, and a lot of confidence and chops to bring it off.

remember Frelng-Huysen used to have the bomb leather?

That's the one I remember with more fondness than anything else, and mostly because of that kind of local color (and, ok, sentimentality). The Stevie derivation is heavy, but I'm not sure it's any more derivative than the Fugee-solo that opens the album and possibly beats all that follows, including the Fugee-meets-Mary J that closes before the encore.

I mostly agree. It's my favourite too. In fact it's the point at which the album lifts off, for me. Although I could do without the "can't take my eyes off you" cover I'd still take it over "The Lost Ones", which is the one dud on the record.

odd to me that there's no revive (that I've noticed) re: the 20th anniversary, and also Robert Glasper's j'accuse…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54WECf1ioeY

It was discussed a little on the jazz thread :)

i am listening to Miseducation for the first time, having disliked the singles at the time.

Lindsay Zoladz had a (as always) very good piece about it in The Ringer too.

*today not too

🖼

i have never heard this album. maybe i should.

― Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, January 7, 2009 12:17 AM (thirteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

Only took another thirteen years. It’s really good!!

should songs be about THAT THING?

classic album my ass!

― I, Contrarian-Ass Mutha (some dude), Wednesday, March 25, 2009 12:09 PM

recent rolling stone list has me thinking again about how overrated and totally unimpressive this album is. it was highly anticipated and i remember listening on release day thinking, "the next song will be the knockout" and that never happened. certainly could've been worse, i guess. it was just so milquetoast and unenthusiastic. and then to find out she was not compensating people properly and it was just . . . yeah, quite disappointing.

what say ya'll?

(ps— i don't hate it, it's just really boring. 2.5 mics at best.)

every song on this album rules

"miseducation overrated" is a corny opinion imo

Every song.

why don't i remember any of them after the album ends?

It's a landmark, etc. I didn't and don't much care for it -- her beats are better than her tunes. "Lost Ones" remains a fucking jam.

About the only things I can remember are the sound of a school bell and the phrase "You might win some but you just lost one."

wow austin. this is like when one of my oldest friends told me he wasn’t feeling Fury Road. i was like….. i thought i knew you

if anything miseducation is, to quote Alba from long ago, so overrated it’s underrated

here's how i always looked at it:

there was two versions of lauryn: "fu-gee-la" badass do it all b-girl or "killing me softly" pop radio crooner.

they tried to mash the two together and invited carlos santana to get even more boomers on board. nah, pass.

I think you looked at it wrong.

It isn't a binary. The singer-rapper-producer loved '70s balladry, and for college-age me I appreciated her tutorial in Roberta Flack, who only recently has earned the plaudits she deserved.

if you can’t remember “ex-factor” the problem is you

longtime fugees fan ready for her to get her spotlight proper — was that not the correct vantage point?

of course it happened anyway, but i wasn't on board because the music just wasn't that good.

also funny you say that, alfred. i initially heard roberta flack's first take around the same time. it sounded like the "real" version of what miseducation was trying to do.

if you can’t remember “ex-factor” the problem is you

― J0rdan S., Saturday, June 11, 2022 11:44 AM

you mean "can't it be all so simple (lauryn hill remix)"?

(said as someone who doesn't really think wu-tang is worthy of their hype either)

https://c.tenor.com/eajqzzS4FTsAAAAC/ah-sunlight-i-hate-sunlight-zartan.gif

Hey where'd you get that video clip of me.

i'm trying to think of something nice to say about this album and the only thing i can come up with is "at least it wasn't so bad that it made me angry." because there were plenty of albums in 98 that did. some really good beats on here i guess.

speaking of, unrelated: one of the most confusing things ever in the liner notes is david axelrod's "tony poem" receiving a sample credit on "every ghetto every city" (one of the better tracks on here, tbh). there's no sample of "tony poem" in that song and i don't think i've ever seen an explanation of how/why that happened. it says the song "contains replayed elements of" tony poem on newer pressings, but uhh? not really? the beat does kind of sound like the breakdown in "tony poem" but that was such an obscure record at the time, i don't think they needed to worry about getting sued. the confusion was compounded when she got in trouble for not giving the musicians on the album their proper credit. but sure, go ahead and list samples that aren't in there????

xpost to alfred

i feel like "this album is overrated" was a fairly standard opinion about it among music critic types pretty much immediately? i think xgau's review which literally calls it the "p.c. record of the year" says it all really *eyeroll*

like yes, the starmaking machinery had indeed conspired to make something that could be signaled to boomers as a boundary-crossing event by a visionary genius -- frankly, insufficiently crediting others involved in its genesis was undoubtedly part of creating that mystique -- with enough attitude + sharply-produced hits to keep the younger/hipper crowds onboard

but the songs were actually great, and quite a few have objectively endured beyond just 'the hits'?? like, "lost ones" was dropped as a buzz track prior to the album's release and every now and again i'll still hear it mixed into a dj's set, and it fucking hits. "nothing even matters" persists on quiet storm programming to this day and yes, i will leave it on and tap along to the fingersnaps and let myself get lost in its effortless vibe. i recall quite a few artists performing or recording versions of the album cuts many years to promote their own work as they broke out years later, from more obvious acolytes like jazmine sullivan to more unexpected ones like colbie caillat (lol). i haven't listened to the album in many years and just browsing the tracklist i still fondly identify many of its album cuts among, admittedly, some more middling material. but honestly, some of the tracks i think are middling are those that those who don't like the album will identify as standouts!

and god those singles!! when the album first came out i was only slightly engaged with pop culture, never bought music + seldom bothered to find out who actually did the songs i liked -- it wouldn't be until after the album had already scooped up its abundance of year-end industry awards that i became a true pop music obsessive young'n. i loved "doo wop" even tho i didn't know who was responsible for it and probably didn't even know its actual title. and i still remember the exact room i was in + bed i was sitting on when i first heard "ex-factor" because almost immediately i was so struck by just how gorgeous the production was, the birds chirping and the rays of sunshine cutting through like a moment of devastating clarity -- i genuinely thought it was one of the most beautiful things i'd ever heard, and that was before the vocals had even come in!! "everything is everything" is probably the weakest of the bunch but was still fucking cool, and seeing that video may have been the first time i actually saw and knew of her.

i think it's easy in retrospect to look back at something like the title cut or the one that colbie caillat covered and see nothing but trite platitudes of unconditional self-love in the face of adversity, perseverance and other character words of the month delivered by an a&r exec's idea of a role model to the youth, but those words did indeed mean a lot to me as a kid + teenager and i don't care how inauthentically i happened across those feelings. the album is gorgeous and genuinely cathartic at its best, and even at its more unremarkable moments is still fine

like yes those rolling stone lists are cringe-inducing but stop, this album being on it, even as high as it is, is not one of the reasons

thanks for the word, dyl. really articulated well; grateful for your time. very much enjoyed reading.

i was very cynical when it came out. i hated most new music (yes, even then). no issues admitting when i'm wrong, but i think i just heard it from the completely wrong perspective - and that's stuck with me because it was a very stinging disappointment. i listened to it a lot to try and understand what i was missing, so i have to say i was being facetious when i said that none of it was memorable; some songs were and i was a dj trying to develop a reputation (my "forgive them father/concrete jungle" mashup was a crowd pleaser). so i still very much remember several of the songs - but not because i liked them.

i was immersed in catalogue music (mostly hiphop and r+b), so all new pop music sounded bad to me. dissonant and just technically sounded mixed all wrong. so it sounded like an attempt to apply "classic" (i.e., "the 70s man") ethos to contemporary music. to me the music lacked any sonic dynamics and the substance of the lyrics was perfectly served by the "70s man" vibe in that they were like a wanky blues rock guitar solo: technically "good", but not everybody wants to hear it, and haven't i heard this somewhere before??? she's a really good singer who wrote better than average lyrics, but it all amounted to fluff.

(then i reassessed her previous work and realized that: yeah, she's been overrated from the start in that regard.)

she lost me for good after winning the grammys. i mean good for her, but just confirmed that it wasn't really my thing. then the mtv unplugged thing happened. i thought it was a weird move for sure, but i certainly had no idea of what she was going through at the time. i'm really happy she's still around.

i still think it's a very mediocre album. seeing it on the rolling stone list was just a reminder.

thanks again. i always read your posts and i'm honored that such a fine one was partially in response to me.

every song on this album rules

― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Saturday, June 11, 2022 6:58 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

"miseducation overrated" is a corny opinion imo

― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Saturday, June 11, 2022 6:59 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Every song.

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, June 11, 2022 7:07 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

THIS

I'm not following you. So you listened to "catalog" hip-hop/R&B in 1998 but are knocking Miseducation for applying what you liked?

And I don't hear the "1970s" in the album at all: whatever else, it's fresh and of its moment. Carlos Santana sounds like he adjusted to Hill, not the other way around.

i'm sure ol' carlos was willing to adjust to any paycheck.

(sorry for the snark, but in my book a carlos santana guest appearance is a demerit on any album)

and i'm sorry i reread my post and it wasn't clear what i meant. it sounded to me like they were shooting for "organic, retro" songs but applied all the modern production techniques to it — so it sounded just like all the other music on the radio (that also sounded bad to me) but the songs were so second tier*. i didn't want new music that was poorly emulating old music.

keep in mind: i was a super snob. don't know what else what to say; i just was. shrug.

but even within a few years, i loosened up and was able to appreciate its contemporaries. it was up against truly different and completely non-pretentious fluff like aaliyah, tlc, etc. and i still find that music to be timeless. miseducation otoh still mostly sounds like a flat tire. nothing more than a very highly crafted flop; too many cooks in the kitchen, too much syrup on the pancakes, etc. i've brought this up before and it seems relevant here: if such a thing as "so bad it's good" exists, surely the inverse can also be true.

*AND NO FUN. good lord, how preachy and buzzkill-y is this album???? when aquemini came out some weeks later, it felt like "yeah, this is what lauryn hill was trying for."

it felt like "yeah, this is what lauryn hill was trying for."

Miseducation feels pretty strongly in Lauryn's voice, no matter whether or not she actually wrote its songs - like, it feels like whatever she was trying for, and I don't really get your comment. And I don't understand how it can be a "very highly crafted flop" when it was actually a hit? It's such an effortlessly enjoyable record. Fucking X-Factor! Doo Wop! Every Ghetto Every City!!! I remember seeing her at Wembley on that tour and she was sublime (and she's been bizarre to rotten almost every time I've seen her since).