Joy Division: Classic Or Dud?

I just realized Dead Souls sounds like Velvet Underground. This has never before occured to me, though I've known that song for 20 years. ???

Also no one ever raves about the brilliance of "Komakino" or "From Safety To Where?" enough just because they weren't proper album tracks! It's a tragedy I say! I'm going to write a book called "Beyond Closer & Unknown Pleasures". Cheers.

"No Love Lost" and "Novelty" are my favorites, but I love at least 15 others. Truly one of those bands that had plenty of room to grow, and I think would have reached even greater heights, if given the time.

Never got real deep into JD, though I own Substance, UP, and Closer. Upon first hearing them I thought I might get obsessed, but it just never took hold. I love it when it's on but I never seek it out. A shame, really.

Yeah, I finally got the "Heart and Soul" 4CD set, been playing CD3 mostly, havent got to CDs 2 and 4 yet.

bimble, in my blog post I posted above, I discuss the possibility of people of a certain age having a very different view of Joy Division because Substance was our introduction instead of the records, so we're biased towards the early punky stuff and the singles instead of the LPs.

Yeah, I am that young person!

(whistles and walks away)

The forthcoming documentary film by Grant Gee is a good one. Very frank interviews with the surviving members. The antidote to Control.

Didn't know about that film at all, or had forgotten news about it. Looking forward to that!

Anyone read this Morley book?

Closer is a fucking depressing album. I never got why so many people in the early 2000s wore Closer t-shirts

the Gee film will be released theatrically in the UK, but the Weinsteins plan straight-to-DVD in US (fall?).

I saw the Gee doco a couple of weeks ago. It's pretty good, very light-hearted, celebrating rather than eulogizing Curtis.

separated at birth: the bassline of 'novelty' and the bassline of the stones "let's spend the night together"

bimble, in my blog post I posted above, I discuss the possibility of people of a certain age having a very different view of Joy Division because Substance was our introduction instead of the records, so we're biased towards the early punky stuff and the singles instead of the LPs.

Nice blog post, Dan! It's nice to feel I'm not alone in having experienced Joy Division at such a young age - I first heard them when I was about 13 or 14 as well. I love that story about you taping the J-Card for New Order's Substance cassette to your locker! Classic! But I can't agree with you that Joy Division's Substance was actually my first exposure to the band (it appears I'm just a few years older than you fwiw..Substance wasn't yet available at the time). I believe Closer was probably the first thing I owned by them, or perhaps the LWTUA 7', but it wasn't long before I had the Komakino flexi, Transmission 7' etc. and heard the tracks that were later compiled on Substance. Sometimes I could only hear these things through trading bootleg tapes with people. Anyway, I think what I was really reacting to in my post upthread was a strange mental block I have in my OWN mind now to think Joy Division = primarily UP & Closer. It's hard to explain why I have that mental block, but it does explain why it is so terribly thrilling whenever I put on other things. I do think too much weight is given to the proper albums, but perhaps that's to be expected.

I wonder if there is any common thread in how teenagers today are exposed to the band?

The forthcoming documentary film by Grant Gee is a good one. Very frank interviews with the surviving members. The antidote to Control.

-- Dr Morbius, Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:23 AM (3 days ago) Bookmark Link

I am excited for this.

I watched 20 minutes and thought it was very nice. I'll prob. finish sometime this weekend.

LOVE! LIFE! MAKES YOU FEEL! HIGHER!

Come on Dan! You know what I mean! I just don't know if there is really a better Joy Division song in the world than "Sound of Music". Sigh. But I'm trying to be objective about this. Really, I'm trying.

The Peel session version is really tops, what with the extra guitar part at the end.

what's that thudding noise? why, it's the ghost of ian curtis trying to hang himself all over again.

wonder what wilson would have made of this, too?

wombats lol

The forthcoming documentary film by Grant Gee is a good one. Very frank interviews with the surviving members. The antidote to Control.

I also think it is way much better than Control. Worth watching.

That Zune story boggles.

it is extremely weird to me that joy division are that popular now; it was weird enough that they even the subject of a film

If there's a U2 iPod, and a Joy Division Zune, I can't wait for my Neu! edition Creative Zen player.

Yeah, maybe they'll do a Grateful Dead one next.

Just saw the documentary - excellent, but should just be called Ian Curtis. I guess I'm the only one who wants a Barney doc.

no i'd like that too. i suppose i could always just read his book

I'd definitely want one. Is the book any good?

I'm going to take a wild guess that Saville had nothing to do with the DVD cover art:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51l--x-519L._SS500_.jpg

The design in the doc itself is excellent.

bahahaha re: Saville

The True Story of The Meteoric Rise And Fall Of One Of The Most Influential Bands Of Our Time

Why does this bother me seeing this at the top of this thing? Am I just too old to remember when such a line would never have been written anywhere? (at least not about Joy Division) Or is it just that I have a feeling Wilson wouldn't have approved either?

Ned: Grimly made some comments about the Barney book on one of these threads or other.

I'm going to design my own cover for the DVD. I'll upload a PDF.

Go Spencer! By the way, I'd like to see what Grimly would do for the cover!

"Am I just too old to remember when such a line would never have been written anywhere?"

see, but it just kind of reminds me of this:

Ideal for Living: History of "Joy Division" from Their Mythical Origins as "The Stiff Kittens" to Their Programmed Future as "New Order"

(er, kinda anyway. that's what i thought of when i saw that dvd cover. wish i still had my copy of that book. i used to have a great obsessive xeroxed fan book of press clippings and transcribed lyrics too. i'd like to see that again as well.)

It's just a matter of wording preference, I think. The Ideal for Living one sounds reasonable to me and even interesting (and it's worth noting that those words appeared on the BACK of the book, not the front). It also makes no claims as to how influential the band were. The DVD one just sounds like some fucking generic rock and roll doc you could buy at Wal-Mart about say...Zep or The Doors or whoever. It's not very imaginative, nor is the damn design! :)

But yeah Ideal For Living is the JD/early New Order BIBLE in my opinion. I treasure my copy and still find it useful from time to time. I also know what "xeroxed fan book" you are talking about ("A History In Cuttings"). I still have my copy of that as well, but there were actually two volumes. I only ever had one and I never saw the other one with my own eyes but I came across someone on the Factory mailing list once who had it. I don't pull that book out as much, but it's nice as a historical document of the press they had while they were actually still making music and just after Ian's death. There's even some DIY fanzine type stuff in there, not just NME/MM/Sounds.

I have the History in Cuttings, didn't know there were two. Pretty amazing to read reviews of live Warsaw shows or articles typed up on a manual typewriter.

That's also where I learned about the Futurama festivals.

By the way, I'd like to see what Grimly would do for the cover!

rip off saville (with only the vaguest idea of what he himself was ripping off in the first place)? it's served me well many other times :)

...made some comments about the Barney book on one of these threads or other

fucking hell, that took a long time to find. this one.

anyway: yes, shocking cover but i can't wait to see the film.

also, not-very-well-designed UK trailer site here.

Dear Weinsteins, if it's not too late, you're welcome:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/spencermfi/jddoc1.jpg

When I do a PDF, I'll leave out the Miriam and the dumb marketing blurb.

that is much better!

Yes, much better! Grimly are you going to do one too?

ugh to that guy saying "they had no fucking choice" but to be on stage - annoying nonsense stance

will you please actually send that in to the company?

(xpost)

Yes, much better! Grimly are you going to do one too?

no, because a) i'd end up toiling over it for hours, b) i don't have hours to spare, c) i bet it wouldn't work as well as spencer's anyway!

Also from The Weinsteins, I'm assuming they have a single in-house designer:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519sX-BC1rL._SS500_.jpg

ugh to that guy saying "they had no fucking choice" but to be on stage - annoying nonsense stance

-- J0hn D., Friday, 25 April 2008 02:30 (4 days ago) Bookmark Link

'that guy'?!

Every other band is on stage because they wanted to be rock stars this lot were on stage because they had no...fucking...choice.

I love this quote actually, it's pure Wilson genius. It's not true of course (at the very least I'm sure Hooky always wanted to be a rock star) but it gives a great idea of why we love(d) them so much. We felt that WAS the reason they were onstage.

Oh, I sound like a teenager.

DANCE DANCE DANCE TO THE RADIO

Just been to see the film. Good stuff although I doubt there's anything new for most people here. Lots of good things, reminded me why Dead Souls is my current favourite JD track, Barney, Hook and Morris are all on top form, and it's clear that Anik has aged better than them, some nice footage of Hannett. A few bits, like the hypnosis tape Barney and Curtis did- seemed rather pointless or over laboured, but all in all pretty enjoyable.