POV - Morton Feldman Recordings

listening to pretty much anything at Carnegie Hall is an insanely cold, boring experience; it's where music goes to die.

Shall we expand this a bit? I got hold of some tracks by Walter Zimmermann (who ed. a collection of Feldman's writings) and you'd feel he is still trying to distill feldman into something more personal. There's a CD of piano works on Metier that I'd like to track down one of these days - if anyone else does..

Does anyone like those Christian Wolff recordings on Mode? I wasn't into the Cowell disc so I got it into my head that the label wouldn't do a v gd job for older composers, but its fine for newer ones (Eckhardt, Czernowin..). 'Exercise 15' on ed.wandelweiser is really good at mapping out his ways.

Perhaps my list of adjectives wasn't precise enough. And I didn't mean to imply that Feldman is "noisy". Just that his work tends to be very long, very slow, very quiet, and devoid of the usual chord progressions and tonal resolutions that give most pop its instant familiarity and immediate gratification. It's music that demands a long attention span and a willingness to listen to something that doesn't have pop hooks, familiar chords, toe-tapping rhythms or catchy melodies. I have a feeling I'm kind of stating the obvious here. This lack of familiar pleasures is probably why this music gets a reputation of being pretentious and why people wonder how anyone can enjoy it.

I must have told the story of the Feldman concert I was at where at the end of an especially repetitive later piece I saw one of the violinists turn to another violinist and say "I've never been so bored in my life". They'd been pulling faces at each other most of the way thru the piece too!

Feldman/X were the big two i started listening to when 'getting' classical. Both were big outsiders in terms of what they sounded like and in the reception of their sounds in classical circles (not that i knew so at the time) so its not a surprise that people have been gravitating toward that music. The Xenakis weekend at the RFH was highly attended and it wouldn't be a surprise if just as many turned out for the Feldman weekend.

http://www.newyorker.com/critics/atlarge/?060619crat_atlarge

the description of his friendship with cage reminded me of these, which are really worth hearing

http://www.ubu.com/sound/cage_feldman.html

(and Lovely Music still has cheap copies of the out-of-print transcriptions, which is one of the best Feldman books around: http://www.lovely.com/titles/bkradiohappenings.html)

Anyway, my top five has changed:

'For Philip Guston' I suspect this will be on top for a long time, really the sorta end for the style he arrived at toward the end of his life, which was started by the first 'string quartet', which goes in at second place.

'Words and music' still in 3rd. So its 'overacted', but its very engaging. I know it should probably be 'Neither' instead for Feldman-esque drama, but 'words and music' has that novelty feel about that hasn't worn off yet, something that got him out of any comfort zone, which is partly what experimental is.

'For Bunita Marcus'/'All Piano' and finally 'Composing by numbers - The graphic Scores, 1950-67' in at no5. My favourite short length Feldman. This is where it all began and really important - if you line this up alongside 'For Philip Guston' you can get at what he ws trying to do. The way I'm thinking is he would spend his time trying to come up with a style that took those hard edges out of some of these, how he'd develop his rhythms and frame music using silence for long periods. All of it starts here.

With mentions of the 'str quartet (II)' I'd say that covers it - only took about two years for a more definitive ans than the one before - must have been really into 'three voices' at the time but its no top five. 'Crippled symmetry' is but it travels a similar road to 'for philip guston' that it could be left out (though you need it, esp if like me if you find it at reduced prices). Never quite got into any of the orchestral pieces as I'm not so into the orchestral tradition (not enough hooks!).

echoes some of the conversation we had upthread about seeing this stuff live -- even when you've got a legendary performer like Takahashi and a completely devoted audience, this is fragile music especially in group environments

to sit still for several hours for one of the sparer works (1 to 4 performers), to sit through the coughs, to have the breathing of the eight people around me be louder than the music, it's definitely a challenge. The orchestral or bigger chamber works reveal more textures in comparison with the recordings. But even there, the rustles, the creaky chairs, the coughs, especially if it's in a big hall with season ticket holders getting brained by the spaces. Was sad to miss For Samuel Beckett at Mills a few weeks back, music schools are often the only environments that can let the modern stuff breathe.

Feldman, Painter of Pages

for someone whose main experience of the music is through recordings, this is great to know. though in the comments, Galen Brown observes that this obviously comes across quite well in performance; the textural changes are accompanied with the page turns. the other comments are fascinating as well.

http://www.newworldrecords.org/album.cgi?rm=view&album_id=17147.com

Gann's throwing down the gauntlet

http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2008/01/in_dispraise_of_efficiency_fel.html

The difficulty of assessing Morton Feldman's impact is that it is so pervasive. Music has by now been so changed by people who were changed by people who were changed by Feldman that I think it would be difficult to trace the various streams of his influence back to their source. Musically, we live in a post-Feldman age, and I am certainly conscious of being a post-Feldman composer. Things are done now that were not done before Feldman gave us precedents. There is music before and after Monteverdi, and before and after Beethoven, and before and after Stravinsky, and I would not be surprised to find that poeple someday talk about music before and after Feldman.

Looking at that para w/out reading the rest of the piece I'd put Feldman in a 'Music before and after Webern' vein.

The thing is we don't live in post-Feldman age at all, if by that he means that music is a more stilled affair.

He'd have to acknowledge that this is, by the same token, also a post-Nono age, which I don't see Kyle agreeing to at all.

Has anyone heard this recording of Feldman playing Bunita Marcus in Dublin last year? i've come across a few mentions of it online - I think it's unreleased, and possibly unavailable?

i'm pretty sure he didn't play dublin last year.

ha ha. John Tilbury did, and yes, it's fantastic and unreleased. I'd upload it somewhere except that given my relationships with the people involved, I shouldn't be the one to do that, sorry.

i've seen Tilbury perform it many years ago. one of the most intense musical experiences of my life. he performed Cardew's "Treatise" solo the same weekend using prepared piano, shortwave radio and a gong. also fantastic.

i saw, rather.

an excerpt from Treatise presumably, probably just a few pages.

Haha yeah I meant Tilbury. If anyone else has a copy and is willing to make one for me/upload it or whatever, I'd be very very grateful...

one other thing worth noting with New World contuing its CRI Records reissue program... two months ago they finally got around to "The Viola In My Life", three 70's performances conducted by Feldman. I would have mentioned that one in the secondaries of my first post if I'd heard it, it's not glossy or ambient, it's close-miked & delicate. Lots of room tone and small noises & movements, very live, active listening.

This really is magnificent, by the way - it's this and the Tilbury recording of Bunita Marcus (the one I have) that I listen to far more than any other Feldman.

an excerpt from Treatise presumably, probably just a few pages.

no, the whole thing in 3 separate sessions over the weekend!

that can't really be done, unless the sessions were 12 or 16 hours each. I have a loose plan in the works to do a complete Treatise, supervised by Christian Wolff and Keith Rowe (both of whom have signed on pending funding), but doing the entire piece takes quite some time. John T. certainly knows what he's doing in this area, but I'd like to see confirmation that that actually was all of Treatise, otherwise I'm going to remain dubious. the other possible explanation is that John's take on how long it takes to perform the piece is wildly different from Keith's, I'd like to know if that's the case also.

the Dublin For Bunita Marcus is 86 minutes as opposed to the 77 minutes of the earlier recording, and the slow, very human feel of it is fantastic.

i see. i thought treatise was 30-odd pages not nearly 200 so you're right, of course. good luck with it!

the Dublin For Bunita Marcus is 86 minutes as opposed to the 77 minutes of the earlier recording, and the slow, very human feel of it is fantastic.

Is there going to be an official release??

not that I know of, I've done all I can to try to get it released via my contacts, but John and I don't speak anymore since he started boycotting the US (which translated largely into boycotting me) and since Keith left AMM. if I could, I'd release it in a second on a new ErstClassical label, though.

there is supposed to be a large Feldman/Tilbury box coming via Matchless at some point, though, with I believe no overlap with the AllPiano box, pieces for piano plus other instruments.

what spurred his u.s. boycott?

That's a real pity. Hopefully it will reach the light of day at some point - I was just googling around and found some more praise for it here:

http://richardpinnell.blogspot.com/2007/04/spot-difference.html

"what spurred his u.s. boycott?"

http://incalcando.com/tilbury/

isn't there a video posted somewhere of the dublin performance? gotta say i wasn't thrilled from the audio there. of course quicktime video isn't the best audio player around.

Has John left or stopped performing here in England?

if he was performing somewhere - where would you find out about it?!

Upcoming performances in London would be fairly easy to find out about, and I suppose anywhere else in england there would be a small item in the 'culture' section of any broadsheet right?

Any foreign performances would probably be advertised in Wire.

Really hope so - 'new music community' is utter bollocks otherwise.

it's a drop in the bucket given the situation, but given her comments about the difficulty of affording food, bandcamp lets you pay more than the asking price for her album, and the music is powerful and worth hearing regardless of context

yes, come payday that feels like a positive thing to do

cosign.

The last time I had seen Marcus mentioned before this was a couple of months ago when someone linked to her Twitter acct bc the tweets were gravely concerning to a "does anyone know where she lives and can anyone go there rn" extent

if anything on her twitter feed is true (i.e. she's in grave physical danger / her husband abuses her), there should probably be some kind of intervention from legal authorities. but it's quite possible much of it is a projection of mental illness. whatever the case, it's sad and i hope she gets help.

actually it's pretty obvious she's delusional and paranoid. she may also be in terrible physical shape. jeez, i hope someone helps her. i'm not sure simply sending her money is really the way to go.

DOES ANYONE IN THIS BITCH LIKE TRIADIC MEMORIES

for the ultimate 6-8 hour minimal piano experience, pair it with Dennis Johnson's November

I v much like Triadic Memories yes

I saw John Tilbury playing it live. My friend said it was like watching someone defuse a bomb.

rothko chapel is the best, i would love to see a live performance of it. i am going to make it a priority to get my shit in gear and nab a ticket the next time i get an opportunity. i like the details in this post:

Even at SF's Davies Symphony Hall, which seats nearly 3000 and is notoriously filled with season ticket holders who inexplicably bring plastic bags with them for the seeming and sole purpose of nervously crinkling them during all the most suspended moments -- when Tilson Thomas did 'Rothko', I had never, ever heard Davies that quiet. It was on the bill with Mozart's 'Requiem', I was expecting the traditionalists to be at their most cranky, but nope, 'Rothko' is just a masterpiece

― Milton Parker, Tuesday, December 4, 2012 2:12 PM (six years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

last night i tried falling asleep to it with cheap apple earbuds, and even through the tiny speakers rothko chapel 3 was extraordinary, flooring in a similar way to lux aeterna, and making use of the same kind of overlapping anonymous voices chasing each other. it was a terrible recording to fall asleep to, but only because it was too beautiful to ever ignore.

i also want to make it a priority to find a better pdf of the score somewhere. but it's amazing to follow along and see how so emotion can come from so few notes, just a simple slow viola melody, with timpani and bass drum rolls. i can imagine how incredible that must sound in a live setting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MjC6sjunL8

The new piano box on Another Timbre, performed by Philip Thomas, is amazing. And if you order it straight from the label as I did, they’ll send you a digital file of Triadic Memories as a single track (it’s split across two of the CDs because it’s 90 minutes long).

Finally digging deep into late Feldman, and I'm kind of obsessed with For Christian Wolff (Blum/Vigeland recording on HatHut). I'm thinking it might be the most purely beautiful of his chamber pieces, both in terms of the delicate soundworld of piano/celeste + flute and the gentle parade of intricately arranged, patiently performed motifs.

My favorite Feldman pieces have passages where he allows the atonality to soften a bit, e.g. the long series of chords on pages 89-93 of String Quartet No. 2, the section of Crippled Symmetry about 30 minutes before the end, and the final section of For Philip Guston in A minor. For Christian Wolff also has lots of this. Perfect music to contemplate on a lazy Sunday afternoon.

The new piano box on Another Timbre, performed by Philip Thomas, is amazing. And if you order it straight from the label as I did, they’ll send you a digital file of Triadic Memories as a single track (it’s split across two of the CDs because it’s 90 minutes long).

I'm kind of daunted by how many recordings there are of For Bunita Marcus. I've only heard the Takahashi on Mode, which is gorgeous. How does the Philip Thomas compare to that one, if anyone knows? His piano box is really tempting...

Died in Jan

RIP tom johnson, composer of rational music, critic at the village voice & essential documenter of downtown nyc scene in the 70s/80s, student of morty feldman pre suny buffalo and much like him and cage and ives, a rugged american iconoclast pic.twitter.com/PmO4mhHYo6

— callahan (@IRCAM_official) January 1, 2025