PARIS HILTON

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That's exactly the problem I have, Tom. I think I just don't like "brash" in pop.

Shorty largely OTM there though the artist "virtually having nothing to do with it" doesn't as a rule bother me that much. With Paris, though, I'm happy to make an exception.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:26 (nineteen years ago)

good enough for me Marcello.

― shorty (shorty), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:27 (nineteen years ago)

You're right, it doesn't mean a great deal.

what it does suggest is that the whole 'people not taking her seriously as pop star' thing hasn't been so damaging and it's just that the album is deemed average on it's own terms.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:28 (nineteen years ago)

among critics at least

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:29 (nineteen years ago)

I would imagine Hilton has worked very hard to get where she is. I think she is responsible for her own fame, and has therefore 'earned' it (whatever that means).

― braveclub (braveclub), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

i don't think anyone gives a fuck, tbh. it's not boom time for pop music, and her singles were merely 'ech' rather than being abject shit.

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

And the Queen grew up in a back-to-back terrace in Bolton, right?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:31 (nineteen years ago)

The Queen was born famous. It's different.

― braveclub (braveclub), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:31 (nineteen years ago)

And Giles and Victoria Coren got where they are today purely through their own efforts.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

Just as I know the sun will come up tomorrow, I know that Hilton would not have released an album at this juncture in her life if her pockets didn't reach down to hell.

― shorty (shorty), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

True, but she wouldn't be nearly as famous as she is now if she hadn't put considerable effort into it.

― braveclub (braveclub), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:34 (nineteen years ago)

And the sky is green.

Thatcherism was bad enough first time around. We don't want it back, thank you very much.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

Considerable effort compared to The Simple Life? mebbe.

― shorty (shorty), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

Who said I was advocating Thatcherism?

― braveclub (braveclub), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

i don't care if she's made an effort.

i don't care if she wrote all the songs or none.

i don't even care if it isn't her voice at all.

it'd still be underwhelming.

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:36 (nineteen years ago)

I can't remember seeing you whelmed in the last two years on ILX, though Enrique!

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:38 (nineteen years ago)

no, it doesn't happen much.

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:38 (nineteen years ago)

it'd still be underwhelming

Definitely can see your point there ben.

― shorty (shorty), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:38 (nineteen years ago)

is it wicked not to care?

― pscott (elwisty), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:39 (nineteen years ago)

It tends to be all Henry does on ILx.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:42 (nineteen years ago)

this thread needs the seward treatment.

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:43 (nineteen years ago)

benrique wept the day '12 stops from home' leaked.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:43 (nineteen years ago)

i'm not sure what to make of that.

i work for the feeling's record company?

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:45 (nineteen years ago)

Do you?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:46 (nineteen years ago)

How many copies has this album sold, incidentally?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

fewer than the feeling's, and i have the celebratory mercedes to prove it.

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

The Feeling have done about 200,000 domestic.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

that's what i'm talking about.

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:48 (nineteen years ago)

Total UK Paris album sales clock in at a tad under 3,000.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:50 (nineteen years ago)

source?

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:51 (nineteen years ago)

this is an argument which recurs all the time, and not just about paris, but about virtually every sleb ever - that you must 'earn' or 'deserve' your fame. wtf? this is mentalism. it assumes a) that fame is something so beyond-mere-mortals wonderful and brilliant that onlhat fame is something so beyond-mere-mortals wonderful and brilliant that only special people are permitted to have it, and b) that fame and celebrity status are intrinsically rational in the first place! both these assumptions are nonsense & a far more pernicious manifestation of ‘celebrity culture’ than any amount of daddy’s girls who just wanna have fun.

Just as I know the sun will come up tomorrow, I know that Hilton would not have released an album at this juncture in her life if her pockets didn't reach down to hell.

so? I mean, seriously, so what? what earthly bearing could this have on whether the music is good?

i like the fergie album, it's...odd in that it's properly good rather than obnoxiously good!

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:52 (nineteen years ago)

What the bleep is "onlhat" fame?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 16:54 (nineteen years ago)

And 'Stars Are Blind' is a wonderful record that craps all over Lily Allen's entire oeuvre.

― braveclub (braveclub), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:00 (nineteen years ago)

oops copy-pasting fucked up!

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:01 (nineteen years ago)

i'm sure most people could understand but for marcello's benefit:

this is an argument which recurs all the time, and not just about paris, but about virtually every sleb ever - that you must 'earn' or 'deserve' your fame. wtf? this is mentalism. it assumes a) that fame is something so beyond-mere-mortals wonderful and brilliant that only special people are permitted to have it, and b) that fame and celebrity status are intrinsically rational in the first place! both these assumptions are nonsense & a far more pernicious manifestation of ‘celebrity culture’ than any amount of daddy’s girls who just wanna have fun.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:02 (nineteen years ago)

should be a DJ Wrongtom or South Rakkas riddim version of 'Stars Are Blind'

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:02 (nineteen years ago)

i wonder if nigel dempster is a fan.

― pscott (elwisty), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:06 (nineteen years ago)

So I'm foolish for liking an actor because they are convincing at character roles as compared to just being one of the pretty people? This line of thinking will certainly not allow the cream to rise to the top in any career.

With all due respect Lex, I think your logic is quite flawed here. Hilton is the one who feels she is beyond mere mortals ("I'm way more famous than any of these people. If anyone deserves a star it's me!") and doesn't have to tow the same line as most other people who have actually proven their talent, live or recorded.

― shorty (shorty), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:09 (nineteen years ago)

how on earth do you know what she feels about her fame?! the little evidence we have seems to point towards a very self-aware "i can't believe these people take me seriously but what larks i'll play along" attitude to it all.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:11 (nineteen years ago)

And Lex, I fully admit my prejudice against Paris before hearing any of the album. I suspect though, that you had just as much positive prejudice as soon as you heard that she was cutting an album. I'm not saying that you weren't actually impressed once you heard it, but I'm fairly sure you were predisposed to like it.

Fair enough?

― shorty (shorty), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:12 (nineteen years ago)

Paris said:
If anyone deserves a star on the Walk of Fame I do

'nuff said for me. Unfortunately there is much more if you insist that I search for it.

― shorty (shorty), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:14 (nineteen years ago)

she also says:

"I'm always playing a character," she says. "I don't talk like this really -- like a baby. I don't act like myself in public, because I don't really want to show everyone the real me. Because I have no privacy whatsoever, the only thing I have is who I really am."

of course i had a positive prejudice towards the paris album! and i was proved right.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:17 (nineteen years ago)

When people are saying "she doesn't deserve her fame", do they actually mean "she doesn't deserve the vast amounts of money she has"?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

and i was proved right

Good thing you're not a judge Lex!

― shorty (shorty), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

Shorty the only thing I'm a bit surprised about in yr argument is the exalted status being given to the Hollywood Walk of Fame - is her blasphemy against its hallowed exclusivity really that horrid?

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:22 (nineteen years ago)

Also am I the only person that finds that 'celebrity' in itself isn't a particularly interesting subject for a song, an album, a 'subversive' art statement, a book, an internet message board debate or anything else?

I mean, some people are famous, some like it, some don't. Big fucking deal. Some people deserve their fame, for like pulling of some amazing feat of physical or artistic endeavour, some don't. It's NOT INTERESTING.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:24 (nineteen years ago)

(The logical extension of this is that Paris isn't particularly interesting either as a popstar or a figure in the public eye. Which I don't think she is either).

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:25 (nineteen years ago)

Tom, I thought it simply shows how absolutely spoiled and naively conceited she is. I actually don't care who is on the Walk of Shame in the least.

― shorty (shorty), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:25 (nineteen years ago)

Matt is broadly OTM - this is why the Lex's arguments for Paris being somehow more than an enjoyable pop album have never rung true with me.

(It might still be more than that - but the Lex's second-hand po-mo clothes don't feel like an interesting fit on it.)

xpost Shorty so your argument boils down to "Spoiled woman thinks she should be included in notorious monument to vanity O NOES"?

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:28 (nineteen years ago)

walk of shame! worthy of banksy.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 17:29 (nineteen years ago)

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PARIS HILTON - PARIS