overlooked 90's groups

I think it was everyone's hair cut

Many it was the people who hung out with The Prima Donnas and a few other bands whose names I forget. Guys who dressed like they were in the Make Up.

The relatively affluent and optimistic Clinton years bred an indie culture that championed harsh, oppositional, punk-inflected noise music. 9/11 and Bush Jr.'s catastrophically dystopian new century produced an American indie culture in love with Sufjan Stevens and The Shins.

I quite like this theory. Does it hold up under further scrutiny? It certainly would explain my experience with indie the past 20 years.

Oh, and The Dambuilders were frickin' AWESOME. I saw them a number of times around Boston and Joan's violin-as-guitar really set them apart. Their last album was a let down but everything up until then is excellent.

For me the end of the Clinton years and what happened to indie, groups like built to spill, emo, and the whole nu twee drove me away from the scene, to look into soul, disco, post punk, and other older musics. I've never really returned to indie.

Dadamah

makes me think about how open to personal or in-group interpretation phrases like "indie", "alternative" and "underground" are. the phrase "indie rock" was attractive to me because it did such a good job of describing my feelings about music and culture. it captured the quasi-political intensity of my devotion to the ideal of "independence". this independence was predicated on punk's rejection of commerce and bourgeois complacency (yeah, i know), but it extended out into a cultural and aesthetic radicalism that rejected traditional punk's genre formalism and demands for ideological purity. as i saw it, indie rock was the punk of impurity, of bastardization, of intermixing and the absurd. relative to american hardcore's extreme orthodoxy, it seemed hugely liberating.

in my personal lexicon, something might just happen to be "underground" by dint of being as-yet undiscovered, and everything was arguably an "alternative" so something else, so those terms were of little use to me. to be independent by choice, as a matter of principle: that was something special. it seldom occurred to me that the gnarly, fucked-up indie rock i so dearly loved was really just another consumer commodity, a niche product aimed predominantly at moderately affluent young people with disposable income to burn, not much different really, than metal or hardcore. i clung to the myth of independence even as the butthole surfers and sonic youth sold piles of records, stickers and t-shirts, got positive reviews in the rolling stone, even showed up on MTV.

then came nirvana, and that was the end of that

really just another consumer commodity, a niche product aimed predominantly at moderately affluent young people with disposable income to burn

That strikes me as a sour spin.

it is, and i regret that to some extent. but it's a realization that struck me deeply and sourly at a certain point in my life, given that i'd invested a lot in the idea of my own "independence" without ever really demanding that i make the appropriate sacrifices on its behalf. that is, relative to the engines of american culture and capital, i wasn't nearly as independent as my record collection had led me to believe. i still see value in the myth of independence (not meaning myth as something false, but rather as something believed in).

i guess i get to be independent in mind, even if i'm still just a wage slave. ask deej and max.

A lof of the 90's underground was very diy, cassettes and cheap cds. What part of it was affluent? matador?

Dadamah, yes Tim, excellent choice, as would be many other little known kiwi bands from the era.

Contenderizer - I was thinking more of the idea that rebelling in the Clinton years when things were comfortable was safe vs. when things felt completely unsafe post-9/11, indie rock became that safe haven. Very broad generalization but it's an interesting idea.

I mean indie rock become safe music.

becAme. Can't get a proper thought typed up tonight.

A lof of the 90's underground was very diy, cassettes and cheap cds. What part of it was affluent? matador?

i meant "affluent" in the "realization that i am an affluent american" sense. like, if you have money to burn on cassette tapes, weed and gg allin shows, you probably aren't all that poor.

Damn. Y'all really suck at this. How about Dream Warriors, Kool Keith a.k.a. Dr Octagon, Atari Teenage Riot, Arto Lindsay, Son of Bazerk and P.M. Dawn?

those are not overlooked

well dr octagon, ATR and PM Dawn are def not overlooked

Smile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPVmVfoI9hs

The Swirlies?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1M3DIX9f78

Self? Are they overlooked?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-MqPaxj4Bg

I've heard lots of friends talking about Chavez lately who I never knew until less than a year ago.

I wanted those to be links, not embeds, sorry

I think Self is overlooked! Porno, Mint and Grime is kind of perfect in certain ways.

Also: yes, Diskothi-Q! You can still buy their CDs if you go to a Mountain Goats show where Peter Hughes is playing.

Finally: KLEENEX GIRL WONDER.

many other little known kiwi bands from the era.

The Terminals were a talented band. Cool to see that their '92 album Touch was reissued a few years ago and is on Spotify. Really unique combination of things - super raw, minimal drums, and really developed melodicism. Unique singer.

Brian Ferry-ish, even. Peter Stapleton was the drummer.

Thank you for posting Smile. Crucial band when I was in high school.

man, i fucking loved swirlies for a good couple years but listening to them lately it's just very sloppy and almost kinda involves the same posturing you see in dubstep today in vein that it's just noise for noise sake, like they're trying to impress us. would be fun in a live setting but via record it doesn't allot to a very compelling listening.

that said, tiger trap or rose melberg and all her associated acts. she's a wunderkind in sense that every song she makes is instantly catchy.

I was thinking more of the idea that rebelling in the Clinton years when things were comfortable was safe vs. when things felt completely unsafe post-9/11, indie rock became that safe haven. Very broad generalization but it's an interesting idea.

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Thursday, March 15, 2012 5:40 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, that's exactly what i was talking about, and, i think, a good explanation for it. re: your earlier question, i don't think that it does entirely hold up, as there were quite a few softer, more reassuring indie bands in the late 80s/early 90s and at least as many weird and challenging ones in the new century. still, it strikes me as a good large-scale picture of changes in the way indie was defined and defined itself in the two eras.

it's just very sloppy and almost kinda involves the same posturing you see in dubstep today in vein that it's just noise for noise sake, like they're trying to impress us. would be fun in a live setting but via record it doesn't allot to a very compelling listening.

speaks to so so many 90s sub-heroes. caroliner rainbow, truman's water, u.s. maple... [ducks]

blowhole

wait! what about caroliner and u.s. maple?

Caroliner Rainbow were ok though, but I was really into Bananafish and loved their compilations.

Man, I'm listening to Gogogoairheart and that's a good example of the turning point! Really weird vocals but the new revivalism in the music.

"the turning point" - not to say that there was only one turning point, sorry.

wait! what about caroliner and u.s. maple?

lol, sorry, i know that stuff is near and dear to you. i never had the acuity/sac hair/wherewithal required to consistently enjoy their records. a hideous character flaw, i know. heard caroliner were (or could be) amazing live.

was re: kelpo's comment abt uber-noisy music being fun in a live setting, but not too useful for home listening.

Kill Me Tomorrow and Get Hustle strike me as other cusp bands. Part serious old school indie rock weirdness but with elements of the new revivalisms.

i'm not sure i follow, tim. to my mind, bands like gogoairheart and kill me tomorrow have roots in early 90s stuff like brainiac, not so much revivalism but continuation. when you talk about "new revivalism", do you mean a reynolds/retromania kind of thing, or something else?

love kill me tomorrow though. great live band, and some great records for a little while there. so much was lost in the sinking of the good ship GSL. too bad they were new century thing, or i'd post a bunch of videos. hypothetically like this, maybe, one of my all-time favorite music/film combos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmAjUFSe_Kk

oops

the phrase "all-time favorite" getting a purt good workout in this here thread, courtesy mr. me

Lol I was just listening to Dadamah tonight; I'm planning on giving Dissolve a good listen here pretty soon as well...

Gravitar and ST 37 have turned into two of my favourite bands on the strength of their 90s stuff; Laddio Bolocko is great too, though for some reason I'm not sure if any of these count. Really dig the first Polara album too

I'm totally looking for a way to hear Caroliner's Rise of the Common Woodpile album; also am on the lookout for some US Maple

when you talk about "new revivalism", do you mean a reynolds/retromania kind of thing

Yeah, definitely. I don't know Brainiac - did they have any element of revivalism? Gogogoairheart was really into early Rough Trade and Factory bands.

Oh yeah Space Streakings is rad too, tho completely diff't than anything else I've mentioned in this thread thus far

Brainiac had a significant new-wave revival element in their sound; another band in this vein was Six Finger Satellite. Also: Servotron? (a band jjj played for me in outloud)

(tho brainiac was more new wave and 6fs were more straight up postpunk)

Gogogoairheart was really into early Rough Trade and Factory bands.

gotcha, and i agree, but so were unrest, another band that GGGA seemed to extend. brainiac weren't terribly "retro" to my mind, though they were strongly influenced by new wave, and their sound was very similar to kill me tomorrow's, with a comparably glammy take on dystopian futurism.

we can draw a line between the pasts observed by different eras, but everything responds to a past of some kind, right? the greasy fingerprints of 70s rockers like the stooges, black sabbath and blue cheer were all over the noisy, scuzzy indie punk that grunge rose out of. the velvet underground loomed similarly large over K-recs style lo fi. move ahead a few years, and it's not the 60s/70s but the 70s/80s that are being channeled. just saying that there's a difference between taking a few cues from something and being a "revivalist".

i mean, the flaming lips started out as a 70s classic rock record collection run through a drug-damaged punk filter, much like dinosaur jr. and with a similarly strong debt to neil young (another big grunge-era influence). but in the long run, i wouldn't call them revivalists, though those elements stayed in place.

Yeah, but I think that some of that newer generation of groups really were explicitly revivalist. Did you ever hear Satisfact or Nick Forte's groups Computer Cougar and Beautiful Skin? GGGA were a little looser about it.

Also, the midwest no wave groups that predated that stuff a bit - Couch, Duotron, Scissor Girls, etc.

Gravitar and ST 37 have turned into two of my favourite bands on the strength of their 90s stuff; Laddio Bolocko is great too, though for some reason I'm not sure if any of these count.

...Oh yeah Space Streakings is rad too, tho completely diff't than anything else I've mentioned in this thread thus far

― John Nestle Harding (loves laboured breathing), Thursday, March 15, 2012 9:50 PM (16-20 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, what counts and what doesn't is a weird question. i don't really think of laddio bollocko as "overlooked" per se. more as a taste acquired by few. they've got a small but very dedicated and vocal following, and are basically still active as the psychic paramount. same might maybe said for gravitar, st 37 and space streakings (???), but even among psyche/drone & skin graft fan circles, they aren't much discussed. still, i don't think that they were ever destined to be loved by more than a handful of folks. unlike SUPERCONDUCTOR and THE KENT 3, bands that deserve to be heard and loved by every man, woman and child on earth.

i will say that this particular song, "stack collison with heap" by st 37, is absolutely fantastic, goofy vocals included, and criminally overlooked:

http://youtu.be/1W3RHgmDcDo

unfortunately, it's from 2002, after their period of designated greatness, so fuggit

Also, the midwest no wave groups that predated that stuff a bit - Couch, Duotron, Scissor Girls, etc.

yeah, exactly! don't know couch, but spent time w both duotron and scissor girls. i think they help build the case that there wasn't any sudden dip towards revivalism in the way strong 80s influences began to show up in 90s indie & punk, but rather a progression of novel-seeming reference points through various bands and scenes. i mean, something had to give after the 70s scuzzrock well ran dry. (dry or not, the scandinavians did pick up that dropped ball and run a few more yards with it in an explicitly revivalist fashion in the late 90s/early 00s: turbonegro, hellacopters, gluecifer, etc.)

leading to more commercial stuff like the darkness and the ark

Space Streakings

mentioned by john nestle harding up there. japanese noise punk hip hop noise noise. an "interesting" band who were probably insane live, but who live or die in my mind by one song: "YOUNGMAN II". might as well be the death set, but way better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjagElyU9kk

god, i listened to a LOT of this shit