oh come on. it's a rather harsh and disorienting album, at least relative to stuff like the XX and kaputt. grief-stricken, panicky, despairing. why on earth would we condescend to music that's "easy to like" in the first place? do we take vainglorious pride in a vision of ourselves as brave explorers venturing out into uncharted jungles of forbidding noise? do we laugh at the ants who can't comprehend our passions? do we smoke a pipe while listening to merzbow? wtf?
you're misinterpreting me but i'm not really massively annoyed about it.
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:01 (twelve years ago) link
what does wife of djp actually play?
usually stuff in the vein of Toni Braxton
if I start getting into stuff weirder or more active than Massive Attack, I get frowns
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:01 (twelve years ago) link
the only music you can play at dinner parties is dave brubeck, you ppl are savages
― dave coolier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:01 (twelve years ago) link
btw I am certain my wife would despise Kaputt because of the singing
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:02 (twelve years ago) link
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, February 7, 2012 3:01 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah, sorry, i got carried away. it's partly that ilx's snobby, knee-jerk indie hate gets on my nerves, partly that i really like let england shake.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:08 (twelve years ago) link
btw fwiw i much prefer the john maus record to kaputt, was that ever discussed here?
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
Implying that dinner parties are at best a sedate affair at which boring couples play mellow music or at worse symptom of class prerogatives is some hackneyed shit, sorry.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:10 (twelve years ago) link
why are "dinner parties" hauled out whenever someone thinks an album's dull?
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:11 (twelve years ago) link
what kind of dinner parties do you guys attend?
i enforce a strict turtleneck-only dresscode hippie
― dave coolier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:13 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.minilps.net/images/stories/shop_image/product/15%20Beggars%20c.jpg
― Euler, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:14 (twelve years ago) link
not here, but in the albums results thread. i was hard on it there, as i initially felt like it was a big step down from love is real, but i've been listening to it over the last week and realizing i was rong to dismiss it so quickly & entirely. does make sense to compare it w kaputt.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:14 (twelve years ago) link
there's no room for dinner in my rock'n'roll lifestyle
― buzza, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:15 (twelve years ago) link
i only eat cocaine and pussy
― judith, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:17 (twelve years ago) link
turtlenecks are pretty cool, esp under a shirt.
i didn't bring up the dinner party thing btw, let the record show.
yeah i feel like the diff between john maus and destroyer is the diff between dance music and indie, or sonics v songs. i actually like plenty of more song-based stuff these days but the richness of the maus record is something i kept coming back to, prob the most expansive pop/dance stuff since sally shapiro imo, which i also still listen to a lot.
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:18 (twelve years ago) link
the vocals? but they are not special at all. just irritating. not only that the guy cannot sing, he even does not have a voice.
Even if it's an affected imitation of Bowie or Tennant or whomever, his voice is rather distinctive!
― jaymc, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:19 (twelve years ago) link
kaputt reminded me of the magnetic fields a bit.
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:20 (twelve years ago) link
i'm dropping non-sequiturs here but i am actually sober
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:21 (twelve years ago) link
i would totally play pj harvey at a dinner party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRxJr3DfLZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4d12wWBVX4
s0 safe s0 middle class
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:22 (twelve years ago) link
localgarda, let's trip balls, wear turtlenecks, and make gabber remixes of 4 Track Demos
― dave coolier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:23 (twelve years ago) link
localgarda likes this.
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:24 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i feel like the diff between john maus and destroyer is the diff between dance music and indie, or sonics v songs. i actually like plenty of more song-based stuff these days but the richness of the maus record is something i kept coming back to...
that's funny, cuz i see maus and bejar as occupying a v similar place on the dance-vs-indie scale, both making atmospheric and rather ironic indie music that draws on aspects of 80s club pop. maus' stuff is a good deal more beat-driven tho.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:26 (twelve years ago) link
i didn't really get that dinner party music talk. surely destroyer's harmless, easy listening stuff must be the perfect background music for a standard dinner party, no? quite like sting was in the 80s but sting was better, he had tunes & some jazzy vibes.
x-pconcerning the vocals, his voice might be distinctive but it is a mumbling voice, it is introverted. he sings as if he would speak to himself. why should i listen to someone lost in a soliloquy?
― alex in mainhattan, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:28 (twelve years ago) link
whenever i read people talking about destroyer's yuppie 80s signifiers i'm like, man i WISH it sounded as good as that. far more fundamental problems though. boring arrangements that aren't a hundredth as good as the cocktail bar stuff you're talking about, all but non-existent songwriting, AWFUL AWFUL SINGING
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:28 (twelve years ago) link
my overall take on Kaputt was "music for people who like the idea of Pet Shop Boys but find them too aggressive"
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:29 (twelve years ago) link
lol
― BJ O (Lamp), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:29 (twelve years ago) link
zinnnnnggggggggg
xp
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:30 (twelve years ago) link
his voice is rather distinctive!
one's man distinctive, another man's annoying. would like an instrumental version of this plz.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:30 (twelve years ago) link
i think maus sounds v italo influenced. but something like "hey moon" is v like destroyer i guess.
maus prob my favourite record of last year...
x-post did anyone actually use the phrase "dinner party music" in earnest about any music? i am unsure if they did.
putdowns like this are always shit, regardless of the artist involved. "it's like band x i like but WATERED DOWN", yeah or maybe it just isn't like band x you like.
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:31 (twelve years ago) link
or "music for people who love Pet Shop Boys but think Al Stewart's `Time Passages' is a better idea than song."
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:32 (twelve years ago) link
its cool that you typed those words into a box on the internet
― BJ O (Lamp), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:34 (twelve years ago) link
and then hey there they are
― BJ O (Lamp), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:35 (twelve years ago) link
i dont know what any of those things are but i get the basic rhythm of the thing
― BJ O (Lamp), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:36 (twelve years ago) link
this thread
― ⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:36 (twelve years ago) link
concerning the vocals, his voice might be distinctive but it is a mumbling voice, it is introverted. he sings as if he would speak to himself. why should i listen to someone lost in a soliloquy?
― alex in mainhattan, Tuesday, February 7, 2012 3:28 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
some people seem to like more introverted and low-key singing styles. no big surprise. i often enjoy this approach myself, find it relaxing and "relatable", allows lots of room for conversational nuance, though it's not like i reject more extroverted singing.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:37 (twelve years ago) link
everyone has ideas and feelings, then they share them here
― BJ O (Lamp), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:37 (twelve years ago) link
kaputt is just....man. phenomenally good.
― omar little, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:37 (twelve years ago) link
For the record, I walked away from Kaputt with an almost entirely neutral opinion; I didn't hate it but I didn't particularly like it either. The putdown is what you read into it; I am sure that for many an non-aggressive PSB is amazing, because a ton of people loved this album.
Furthermore, the sound palettes match a lot of the stuff PSB have been doing since Release, so it's only a shit comparison if you haven't been paying attention. Some bands do actually sound like other bands and it's not really a sin or a crime to point it out.
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:37 (twelve years ago) link
putdowns like this are always shit
is it even a putdown?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:37 (twelve years ago) link
destroyer's kaputt....so damn good.
― omar little, Sunday, February 5, 2012 9:27 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i get where you're coming from but i dunno i dont listen kaputt or west coast and go "oh cool 80's sounds here" i just hear awesome fresh music
― ⚓ (gr8080)
― omar little, Sunday, February 5, 2012 4:12 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
kaputt is a wonderful album, one of the year's best
― omar little, Tuesday, February 7, 2012 11:59 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― omar little, Tuesday, February 7, 2012 1:37 PM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― ⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:39 (twelve years ago) link
okay, i get that, and there does often seem to be a sort of unearned snobbery built into mainstream indie culture, a tendency to take pride in a sense of superiority and difference that doesn't require any special ability or effort or entail any actual risk. but it's also a generic, nuance-free objection to a reductive caricature of that culture. hardly the sort of thing we should uncritically embrace.
there's something very suspect about negatively describing music of "aspiring to niche-less universality", especially if one has any fondness for chart pop. for one thing, we can't so easy know artistic intent, and for another, all art has identity, even that which we're inclined to sneer at. furthermore, it's a huge mistake to damn art for the sins of the critical culture that responds to it.
Yes, which presumably is why Ronan said words to the effect of: "I dismissed this as X but then i heard some of it and it sounded good!"
No attempt to define music by how it is treated culturally / in the media can constitute an exhaustive statement of its qualities (or quality). This should go without saying?
This is also why I caveated my reference to aspiration by reference to how the music is presented - in truth saying what "music aspires to" is very difficult to do with any accuracy, whereas saying how music is presented in the media is both easier and more indicative of the relationship between the music in question and social groups (as opposed to between the music and you).
But above all, you should keep in mind that not every attempt to describe the listening habits of our peers is an unconscionable attack on the music listened to.
It's possible to say that e.g. The XX is perfect and archetypal dinner party music for university educated indie listeners (and I know because I've been at these dinner parties) and still really like the music (in fact my fondest XX listening experience was at a beach bar in Nice where it was played on shuffle with Sade's Greatest Hits - what does that say?), and still really like dinner parties for that matter!
I more often put on lunch barbecues, but either way I geekily really enjoy the process of working out what music to play.
― Tim F, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:39 (twelve years ago) link
But Dan its a sin!
― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:39 (twelve years ago) link
― ⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, February 7, 2012 11:39 PM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
genuine pity in my heart for u guys
mixed with a tinge of contempt of course
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:40 (twelve years ago) link
wow the shoe is on the other foot for once
― judith, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:41 (twelve years ago) link
omar killing it ITT
― dave coolier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:42 (twelve years ago) link
what shoe! what foot! this thread is hilarious.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:42 (twelve years ago) link
i still wanna know if tim f. digs any M83 stuff. he won't tell me. does a ronan dig any M83 stuff? who listens to it anyway?
― scott seward, Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:42 (twelve years ago) link
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Tuesday, February 7, 2012 3:29 PM (44 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
cheap slam, but half fair. kaputt is p obviously a mood piece, album-oriented, not would-be chart pop in a PSB vein. aggression is hardly the point. and are we really reduced to ridiculing music for its perceived lack of aggression, like 80s alt people sneering at "safe" radio pop?
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:43 (twelve years ago) link
the sales staff at b&b italia, two hungarian office cleaners, the middle classes (xp)
― BJ O (Lamp), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:43 (twelve years ago) link
I totally dig M83!
xp: contederizer dude, please keep up
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Tuesday, 7 February 2012 23:43 (twelve years ago) link