ILM'S TOP 77 TRACKS of 2011 (Los resultados!)

...among certain people. ilm has thankfully always been somewhat sceptical of that

Among lots of people! Surely P4K has a much larger readership than either ILM or Resident Advisor!

The Pitchfork review section is far better than it's ever been imo, but things that distract people from this fact are the almost tabloid-level lows the news dept has sunk to, the self-aggrandizing festival every year, the almost smug sense that "Best New Music" tags carry with them, etc etc.

"getting me down" was #20 on the fact EOY list and #1 on resident advisor.

emeli sandé was a huge huge hit in the uk.

those are not evidence of ilx disappearing into its own wormhole and departing from consensus elsewhere.

I'd be up for adding RA or something similar to the stats, but I definitely think we shouldn't remove P4k - it is actually, factually, a pretty big deal in music criticism. But then you get the thing of making more work for the people who run it. I thought Spotify popularity was a really cool addition this year, if somewhat flawed.

Among lots of people! Surely P4K has a much larger readership than either ILM or Resident Advisor!

My point isn't who has a larger readership - it's about the music that is covered. Which list is more outward looking, more catholic in its tastes, more willing to take seriously music of all kinds.

In 2006, I'm pretty sure I'd heard all of the songs in the top 20 except for the Liars track.

In 2011, there were three tracks (Blawan, Emile Sande, Benoit & Sergio) I'd never even heard of, and another (Desloc Piccalo) I would never have heard of had there not been a dedicated thread on ILM. Of all of the bolded tracks, the only one that I'd listened to more than twice was Destroyer.

I dunno, it feels somewhat significant to me.

― jaymc, Friday, January 27, 2012

I knew the same amount of records in both years. Feels significant to me

Well, doesn't ILM have a "brand" as much as P4K has a "brand"? I mean, the ILM brand is pretty much "look out, we like some of everything" ...but it's not really that much different as brands go.

In 2008 I went to the cinema 15 times. Last year I only went once. I think that says something about Hollywood

Maybe Spotify made a difference this year, by making it easier for more people to hear more of the nominated tracks before voting? Maybe there was more campaigning?

I don't think the campaigning was any more fierce, a couple tracks excepted. I'm absolutely sure that Spotify helped more people hear more things, though.

still in the Spotify exclusion zone :(

Maybe the difference is that ILM has become more RA-influenced then?

Songs from the 2006 RA top 30 appearing on the 2006 ILM top 50:

16. The Knife, "Silent Shout"
27. The Field, "Over the Ice"

Songs from the 2011 RA top 50 appearing on the 2011 ILM top 77:

1. Blawan, "Getting Me Down"
4. Todd Terje, "Snooze 4 Love"
6. Steffi ft. Virginia, "Yours"
12. Benoit and Sergio, "Walk and Talk"
41. M83, "Midnight City"

My point isn't who has a larger readership - it's about the music that is covered. Which list is more outward looking, more catholic in its tastes, more willing to take seriously music of all kinds.

ILM > P4k > RA

In 2008 I went to the cinema 15 times. Last year I only went once. I think that says something about Hollywood

This is a flawed analogy. I think my listening habits, including how and where I discover music, are pretty similar to what they were five years ago.

yea the campaigning thread seemed kinda more muted this yr idk prob cuz we we're in the 'box

2006: 4%
2011: 6%

Maybe Spotify made a difference this year, by making it easier for more people to hear more of the nominated tracks before voting? Maybe there was more campaigning?

This is entirely possible. I didn't bother listening to any nominated tracks that I wasn't already aware of.

I think my listening habits, including how and where I discover music, are pretty similar to what they were five years ago.

― jaymc, Friday, January 27, 2012

Pool of one though. Plus dependent on your own self-assessment,

I'm not sure what you're arguing...?

I'm not sure what you're arguing...?

You're extrapolating based on a sample size of one, and then arguing thats somehow significant.

Not saying you're wrong or anything but to me the 2006 and 2011 lists look pretty similar. maybe depends on your vantage point

You said yourself that perhaps you don't spend as much time/dig as deep to hear new music nowadays jaymc (forget your exact wording)

2011 was heavier on dance tracks... maybe it was a great year for dance, maybe it was just a quirk of who voted this year

i think the middle of these lists always feel pretty attuned to what has been championed on ilm but maybe not in other places, but once the top 10 or 15 rolls around, it usually falls back in line w/ maybe one or two exceptions

and there is some truth to lex's protests about comparing this list to pitchfork's... last year we had "hard in da paint" and "wut" as the top 2 tracks, which was out of line w/ the top finishers at pitchfork and pazz and jop, but not, say, fact or some rap publications

All I am saying is this:

I am someone who keeps up with music (in a dilettantish way) well enough to know most of the tracks in the top 20 of P&J and P4k each year.

In 2006 this meant that I also knew pretty much all of the tracks in the top 20 of the ILM poll. However, in 2011 I can no longer say this is true.

Since I have used objective data to determine that the ILM poll no longer resembles P&J and P4k as closely as it once did, I think it's fair to make the case that ILM has changed.

lol u old

It's certainly plausible that the Sandbox had a weird effect on the poll, but I'm not sure what that effect would be. I *was* nervous that we might not get as many voters as a result, but in the end we got more than last year.

jaymc is exactly right, and i cant even understand what it is about what he's saying that lex is so incredibly resistant to

Game's the same, just got more fierce

we're saying that over time, ILM has become less similar to a sort of larger critical consensus and has found its own particular enthusiasms & quirks of taste. I think that's fairly correct.

or i should say, that's a theory based upon the evidence jaymc has brought to the table here

Lol gr8080

No objection here to adding placings from RA for next year. I had thought about adding stats for a bunch of EOY lists for the big spreadsheet, but the first list I looked at was The Wire and I realised more than half of those albums hadn't been nominated and decided maybe it wasn't worth my time.

or i should say, that's a theory based upon the evidence jaymc has brought to the table here

― guilt is a useless emoticon (D-40), Friday, January 27, 2012 5:42 PM (50 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it might be true... it's also hard to assert as fact based on two years of data

yeah, but it also feels correct to me, and lex's counterarguments havent been very convincing

ILX has more posters/traffic than ever before, and in 2012 we'll likely see that trend play out even further

more people = more diversity?

also (speaking for myself here) there may be a conviction to use your ballot to champion certain songs... and after seeing that effect play out with one or two songs the year before, more people change their voting behavior the following year.

i know seeing "wut" in the #1 spot last year affected the way i voted this year.

and year after year, we get further away from p+j/p4k territory

but to me the 2006 and 2011 lists look pretty similar.

They don't at all to me. The 2006 list is a blend of genuine US/UK pop hits and standout singles from well-received albums. The electronic/dance tracks on the list are all indie-crossover artists: Junior Boys, the Knife, Hot Chip.

The 2011 list, while retaining some of the above, also includes a smattering of R&B and dance songs that never quite crossed over beyond their respective genres.

It's pretty obvious that some group sensibilities/obsessions are more prevalent on ILM than elsewhere. Maybe one difference compared to e.g. Pitchfork is that if you're active on ILM you are by definition interacting with the other members and therefore more likely to affect/be affected by their taste; if you're writing for Pitchfork I assume you can happily avoid chatting with other contributors. Also, new people who encounter ILM and decide to stay are presumably attracted by some sensibility that they think is cool, and hence some tastes will be reinforced over time (other tastes will of course diminish though).

Thinking about trends that I strongly associate with ILM polls, the first things that come to mind are:

- Beach jams
- 20+ minute songs
- Internet memes
- Sad electropop

ILM subcommunities also have their own idiosyncracies, e.g. the metal poll was full of chat about "ILM metal".

All this is orthogonal to the question of why particular songs get picked up while other similar songs don't (deej talked about this upthread, I think). I guess that sometimes depends on what thread a song gets posted on, it definitely depends on who posts and reps for it and some of it is just random.

ILX has more posters/traffic than ever before, and in 2012 we'll likely see that trend play out even further

more people = more diversity?

― ⚓ (gr8080), vrijdag 27 januari 2012 23:45 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I would like to believe this will be the case, but don't think it play out like that. I feel all corners of the room, all different shades are being covered already. If more people will come (I do hope so), I think they will only underline the biggest trends and tastes.

All I am saying is this:

I am someone who keeps up with music (in a dilettantish way) well enough to know most of the tracks in the top 20 of P&J and P4k each year.

In 2006 this meant that I also knew pretty much all of the tracks in the top 20 of the ILM poll. However, in 2011 I can no longer say this is true.

Since I have used objective data to determine that the ILM poll no longer resembles P&J and P4k as closely as it once did, I think it's fair to make the case that ILM has changed.

― jaymc, Friday, January 27, 2012 5:38 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

all motion is relative. perhaps it is ILM which has moved away - by standing still.

I think when ILM started in 2000, there was a distinct difference from the critical orthodoxy (poptimism, etc.). And then perhaps by mid-decade, the orthodoxy had shifted so that it was more closely aligned with the ILM sensibility.

Within the past few years, there do seem to be more discrepancies, but because the board has expanded and diversified so much, I'd argue that it's much more difficult to encapsulate an "ILM sensibility" and that any notion of such a thing is merely the inevitable influence of the board's most dominant factions.

did goons do their own invite-only thread this year? can they still?

― ⚓ (gr8080), Friday, January 27, 2012 4:34 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i don't want this to get lost--goon poll last year was great imo

I always feel like ILX broke p big with Pitchfork/P&J/"mainstream critical consensus" in 2008--based on my intuition after checking out the albums EoY poll--but when I actually try to take an analytical look at this based on evidence, it tends to fall apart...

I do feel like there is a massive difference between the 2007 albums poll and the 2008 one, but I can never be for sure whether or not that's because music changed, or criticism, or just ILX...

Yeah, there are a lot of factors, probably!

xp I think there's a lot that has to do with that: for instance the metal poll started in '08, and while only three metal albums placed in the countdown that year, there were also at least two Fonal Records albums that placed, that I suspect were voted in by the same group of people...

Also, in retrospect, 2008 was the big annus mirabilus for what I cheekily refer to as 'ILX R'n'b revisionism'--the whole (correct imo) idea that Badu/Terius/Quik are the geniuses of our time--that I think became a widely disseminated idea around these parts and helped lots of non-goon listeners take R'n'B seriously...

It's hard for me to say this with any kind of certainty: iirc in '08 I was still a goofy oddball who just wanted to post about Kim Deal and the Fall--but I've been following the polls since 07 (tracks one more since 09) and these are the vibes I was picking up on.

might some this analysis be a little premature? iirc, the albums results felt a lot different from the tracks results last year.

yeah i'm probably mistaking apples w/oranges here. my bad...

Albums results used to be mostly a rock/indie-rock affair with a little rap and pop sprinkled in. I think that's been changing over time as well. I haven't seen this year's results (I asked seandalai to keep them a secret), but I bet it will be more exciting than previous years' results.

the goon influence def felt lighter on teh poll this year. last years, it was like every three songs was from a difft crew: dance, goon, pop/critic pop.