The Doors: Classic or Dud?

I think pretentious critical blather is what scared some people off the Doors.

----

People didn't pay as much attention to critics back then.

These statements seem in opposition, yet they both came from you. Reconcile?

only 100 people read criticism about the doors in the 60s, but they all were scared off

Rollins loves the Doors: "The Doors made you think. They were a bummer at the love-in.
Morrison forced you to confront the darkness you tried to shut out with your shiny happiness."
i don;t know what this means. other than that morrison + iggy sorta created that archetypal confrontational frontman.

"the bummer at the love-in" = A+

Hey, the ripped off the Seeds, of course they sound punky!

― Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:01 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

in jac holtzman (founder of electra records') book, it comes out that perhaps a bigger influence on the doors were actually Them (van morrison's band)...apparently, Them were super crazy and unhinged live, and people in that book said whenever they played LA jim was right up by the stage and apparently bit a lot of van's stage moves and presence

morrison was also supposed to be heavily into Arthur Lee & Love, who of course invented both punk and prog.

More than happy to reconcile, and I am so sorry about my lack of clarity.

Someone brought up the Doors film by Oliver Stone, and the accompanying press about both the film and the band, much of it kind of self-indulgent and pretentious. This is eighties criticism.

In the second sentence, I was responding to a question about critical reception in the sixties / seventies. This is the truth, I'm sure many "rock" critics can confirm this...people consumed music, you were participating in culture. Critics' opinions were not as important.

I'm sorry about my lack of clarity.

In any case, if you want some good Doors reading, get this:

http://img2.imagesbn.com/images/102610000/102617393.jpg

man this Matrix show is so great

"Crystal Ship" seems so epic for 2:51

darkness doesn't necessarily mean not psychedelic/hippie... that innocent hippie image seemed to be more of a media/punk strawman, the scene and psychedelic experience could be pretty dark/ritualistic

but anyways I'd consider the Doors more of a Goth band than a Punk band

yeah, & as film school dudes, seems like the doors were a bit more about creating a spectacle. had more "theater" in them than other 60s bands i think, both on the records and live.

― tylerw, Thursday, January 26, 2012 12:46 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

iirc the beeb doc makes this connection too! something about a "living theater" troupe in LA in the 60s, lots of genet etc, very "confrontational"

i found a link which may or may not be it

http://www.livingtheatre.org/about/history

whether there is an explicit connection or just the doc drawing lines idk

yeah, morrison was heavy into that stuff -- http://www.doors.com/miami/one.html

Scaruffi ranks the first Doors album as the #1 psychedelic album

I kind of feel like The Doors were sort of the middleman between Love and the Stooges; is there any Doors song that really stands up punk-wise to "7 and 7 Is" or "No Fun"?

apparently, Them were super crazy and unhinged live, and people in that book said whenever they played LA jim was right up by the stage and apparently bit a lot of van's stage moves and presence

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dCVZ3U_lipU/S_iOHz8J4rI/AAAAAAAAS_Q/dF9uR9B_dHI/s400/whisky.jpg

I'm about halfway through Densmore's memoir, Riders on the Storm -- kind of goofy, but worth reading for its creepy depiction of the rest of the band alternately ignoring, enabling, and fretting over Morrison's self-destruction.

but basically:

i saw this interview with johnnny ramone and i thought it was interesting when the interviewer asked him about bands he liked, he said the Doors were the only good american band of the 1960s, said he worshiped them..

i know iggy idolized the doors too, so Johnny + Iggy = the founders of punk to me...

the doors had that darkness and artiness and also a real confrontational vibe that seems to prefigure punk in a lot of ways

at the same time, i can't imagine, for instance, the full on organ workout version of light my fire, with its jazz/classical aspirations, couldn't have been a major influence on the first-gen prog dudes like rick wakeman, ELP, yes etc

so the doors basically invented everything

― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:37 PM (2 hours ago)

i go back and forth between loving and hating the Airplane...jorma was such a fucking monster electric guitar player though, he keeps me in the game

"volunteers" is stone jam

― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:53 PM (2 hours ago)

^^^greatest rock critic who ever lived

I read the Densmore book; it's okayish though anything post-Doors (or even late Doors) doesn't really hold my attention

I kind of feel like The Doors were sort of the middleman between Love and the Stooges; is there any Doors song that really stands up punk-wise to "7 and 7 Is" or "No Fun"?

I don't think you're too far off but their mid-point was relative Love's softer/poppier side, not their garage rock side. The Doors' material never got as willfully stupid/crude as the songs you mention.

I do recall lol'ing at Iggy's line that you might as well call him "Jim Jagger or Mick Morrison"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BhszZ53SEC8

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/903111_4865280425971_368924073_o.jpg

aw

lol

perfect

It sort of looks like he's a cardboard cutout.

Dark times at Maine Labor Department

^^^unreleased Doors jam from the LA Woman sessions.

somebody get that poor old man a reacher grabber. he's going to fall and break his hip.

I saw The World of Jacques Demy last night--some footage of Morrison visiting the Donkey Skin set. (YouTube clips blocked, but this seems to work.)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb2poa_jim-morrison-tres-court-a-regarder_music

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeyHAEVCEAA6e3k.png

http://i.imgur.com/8Mt7Bv2.jpg

what the

dudes trying to look like Jimbo will never not be funny

The Door(k)s

secret heroes of rock music: all the session dudes who played bass on the doors records, they had a lot of sweet basslines

classic beyond words

I know no one cares about them anymore, but Other Voices, at least the parts without vocals, is actually pretty good.

I once admitted to liking (not loving) both post-Morrison Doors LPs on an ILX thread.

they are not a great band but I always have time for them. la woman (the song) is a masterpiece too

The Doors rule, time for a Doors renaissance.
I really want the Strange Days mono for RSD

Robbie Krieger is the most underrated guitarist of 60s rock, either him or Jorma from Airplane

they are not a great band but...

Yeah, I would argue this. Lots of ILM hate, and they're often pretentious, or goofy, or both at the same time (The Doors, not ILM) but they had a unique and immediately identifiable sound.

the Matrix 1967 shows are really exciting...before all the craziness, when they were just starting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqjaPNVXfYM

my dad saw em in LA pretty early on, and he said they were a seriously exciting live band, and that the records didn't quite get that across.

i'm super into the doors lately and i dunno if you kind of approach them with a sense of humor and the ridiculousness of the whole thing, they are pretty amazing

i love lots of things about them, they are so L.A., a real sleazy form of very LA psych that's very 60s but very non-hippie, violent etc

yeah i almost think of them in the same way as black flag, kinda south bay beach scuzz

that matrix show is nice because it shows them before the "bloated lounge act" accusations that they still suffer today took over

tbf some of that bloated lounge act stuff they did is awesome and enduring imo

eg la woman

sibalibagubbaboudanowaago

is my favorite moment of their catalog

also Densmore and the host of amazing session dudes who played on the albums are one of the great rhythm sections