what happens if SOPA passes?

i think in general people are becoming more educated about what the "good stuff" is, thanks to the internet of course

― frogbs, Wednesday, January 18, 2012 3:42 PM (6 minutes ago)

smdh

yeah if u dudes arent careful im going to go ten kinds of philosophy of aesthetics on yall

So in iatee's future we will all live in an expertly designed urban megalopolis with renewable resources, but no one will have any jobs? Bleak dude, bleak.

has patronage even gone away?

not in the slightest IMO

I mean, what do you think record labels etc are but a for-profit patronage system

smdh

you really disagree with that?

well that's not really what i meant. the donor/foundation-manager/big ticket art buyer crowd aren't nobility (well not all of them) but they're pretty close

So in iatee's future we will all live in an expertly designed urban megalopolis with renewable resources, but no one will have any jobs? Bleak dude, bleak.

very few people will have jobs because computers will do most things we consider to be jobs! it's only bleak if we don't redistribute the social gains from this.

hey, while where all here: if you turn javascript off wikipedia is still perfectly visible.

(like i didn't get all the "wiki person with funney page title" screencap humor cos i wasn't seeing any of that shit to begin with)

well that's not really what i meant. the donor/foundation-manager/big ticket art buyer crowd aren't nobility (well not all of them) but they're pretty close

not denying this at all; in fact, a truculent patron was 100% of the reason why Opera Boston imploded: http://articles.boston.com/2012-01-15/arts/30627936_1_development-director-metropolitan-opera-board-president

http://www.occasionals.co.uk/pics/will/morris2.jpg

i think in general people are becoming more educated about what the "good stuff" is, thanks to the internet of course

Nielsen SoundScan top selling albums 2011

1 Adele - 21, 5,824,000
2 Michael Buble - Christmas, 2,452,000
3 Lady Gaga - Born This Way, 2,101,000
4 Lil’ Wayne - Tha Carter IV, 1,917,000
5 Jason Aldean - My Kinda Party, 1,576,000
6 Mumford & Sons - Sigh No More, 1,420,000
7 Drake - Take Care, 1,247,000
8 Justin Bieber - Under The Mistletoe, 1,245,000
9 Jay Z & Kanye West - Watch The Throne, 1,232,000
10 Lady Antebellum - Own The Night, 1,204,000

i'm not talking about top 40 junk, that's pretty much always going to be the same

i'm talking about people who actually try to discover music on their own and all the resources available to them these days as opposed to 15 years ago

so... you're not actually talking about people "in general" despite what you said

i dont really think its that hard to figure out
like, do you really think we'd be going through a 2nd wave of Can re-issues if not for all the internet hype/youtube/downloading?

i dont really think its that hard to figure out

lol neither does anyone else

idk who cares if people like 'good music' the question is whether people are enjoying music more / finding more types of music they enjoy

exactly which I'm saying would allow the market to 'figure itself out' (in a supposed future world)

1) these bills aren't going to pass, they were never going to pass
2) programmers/hackers would have just found ways around this shit, like they always do
3) righteous indignation about the right to pirate DVDs, MP3s, etc is nagl

― “How you like that, Mr. Hitler!” (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 January 2012 04:55 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Dude, despite 'piracy' being in the name these bills are not about piracy at all. They're about a load of content companies, bloated by a century of physical distribution and region lockout, trying to control the entire internet in order to save themselves and themselves alone.

Remember that this is the first time in history these companies have not had complete control of the distribution medium. That's their goal here. The word 'piracy' is chucked in to distort their motives.

Save yourself some time Schlafsack and just beat your own head against the wall, it'll be less frustrating.

depressing

yes, we get that; the thing is, the companies who are opposed to this are worth way way way WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than the companies who are supporting it, plus they are stating that putting this legislation into place will hurt their ability to do business, ergo NOT GONNA HAPPEN

programmers/hackers would have just found ways around this shit, like they always do
DCMA has been a pretty good guide to how even though there were ways around it, it's still a fucking monumental pain in the ass. And DCMA was like asking politely compared to this mugging.

id be curious to see how a bill like this would do if it weren't so fucking extreme

I ate sopes because of this thread

thank you D@n

xp

the companies who are opposed to this are worth way way way WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than the companies who are supporting it

You reckon the pro-SOPA/PIPA companies are not prepared to kill themselves fighting this thing? I'm not saying you're wrong but they've still got deep pockets, and I suspect many of them see this as their last chance before the 21st century hatchets them to death.

who cares? Google et al are more powerful at this point and everyone knows it

this is just a battle between different sets of corporate overlords hooray for patting yourself on the back for choosing one over the other. they all fucking suck afaic.

btw re this from shakey

programmers/hackers would have just found ways around this shit, like they always do

Yes, and at least 99% of all DRM in history has only punished people who are doing the right thing.

clearly this thread has kind of ranged beyond even the broad implications of this one bill.

i don't think anyone is surprised to see it become a fight among superrich firms with a stake in the outcome

xp well to elaborate more, it is an actual fight ie the outcome is not really foreordained. maybe "the RIAA" will win or maybe "google" will, yet. we will see conflict over this kind of shit for the rest of our lives probably!

who cares? Google et al are more powerful at this point and everyone knows it

― “How you like that, Mr. Hitler!” (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 January 2012 09:32 (54 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is just a battle between different sets of corporate overlords hooray for patting yourself on the back for choosing one over the other. they all fucking suck afaic.

― “How you like that, Mr. Hitler!” (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 January 2012 09:33 (5 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

You don't have to blindly take a side. It's possible to say SOPA and PIPA are fucking ridiculous while also opposing open slather to torrent sites. The solution is somewhere in the middle.

seems to me like 99% of all DRM policy has been an abject failure so again, who cares

xp

while also opposing open slather to torrent sites.

how does one do this? these sites exist and nothing can stop them, certainly not some half-baked paranoid legislation with no prayer of passing

seems to me like 99% of all DRM policy has been an abject failure so again, who cares

That's why the best way to deal with piracy (assuming that's the motive (which it isn't)) is offering superior access to the same content. Despite the loony ranting of the "can't complete with free" brigade it's absolutely possible.

You reckon the pro-SOPA/PIPA companies are not prepared to kill themselves fighting this thing? I'm not saying you're wrong but they've still got deep pockets, and I suspect many of them see this as their last chance before the 21st century hatchets them to death.

I reckon that it doesn't matter if they are prepared to kill themselves or not; in fact, I invite them to kill themselves as it will put them out of their misery faster rather than the 30 year agonizing decline they are currently staring at; perhaps with them gone someone can figure out a business model that actually fits the landscape.

seems to me like 99% of all DRM policy has been an abject failure so again, who cares

it failed at preventing piracy; it totally succeeded in making electronics more complicated, expensive and hard to use than they need to be. Like HDMI cables and DVD ads you can't skip and lots of other bullshit that's too low-level to go and download some crack for, but annoying enough that it's still bullshit.

That DRM is easy to subvert and doesn't prevent piracy doesn't mean it has no effect at all.

while also opposing open slather to torrent sites.

how does one do this? these sites exist and nothing can stop them, certainly not some half-baked paranoid legislation with no prayer of passing

― “How you like that, Mr. Hitler!” (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 January 2012 09:37 (43 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I was referring to e.g. Google displaying torrent links in search results. The easy way to stop that would be to legislate against it. It wouldn't stop determined pirates (nothing would) but it would disguise from your average pleb the notion that a free illegal copy is one click away.

it would disguise from your average pleb the notion that a free illegal copy is one click away.

lol wuht everyone who is not a goddamn idiot knows that ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING is one click away at this point

Like HDMI cables and DVD ads you can't skip and lots of other bullshit that's too low-level to go and download some crack for, but annoying enough that it's still bullshit.

lol rmde take it to the first world problems thread

to repeat myself a little differently, i don't know why people (shakey) are saying this bill never had a shot. clearly it did! otherwise it wouldn't be controversial!

like that's what you wanna get up in arms about, the important shit like how annoying it is to watch DVD ads. oh the humanity.

i don't know why people (shakey) are saying this bill never had a shot.

for the simple fact that Google et al have more money and political clout than WEA et al.

That DRM is easy to subvert and doesn't prevent piracy doesn't mean it has no effect at all.

― stet, Thursday, 19 January 2012 09:39 (35 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I can't prove this (obviously) but without DRM I seriously doubt piracy would be as widespread as it is now. A prime example is that bullshit notion of authorising music you've bought with a service that completely closes down after two years, taking with it your access to the music that you paid for. There are loads of people who will never trust content companies again.

DRM was basically what got me to stop buying any major-label discs altogether, as I was one of the unlucky few that couldn't get the thing to work on their car stereo too, it really did have the feeling of being "punished for doing the right thing"

That's why the best way to deal with piracy (assuming that's the motive (which it isn't)) is offering superior access to the same content.

this is exactly it - I'm okay with paying for things I can get for free, but when the free stuff is superior (as it is when the CDs have DRM, or the iTunes m4a's can't be transferred cleanly between computers or hassle you otherwise), that's when I just won't pay

SOPA is looking more dead by the minute. co-sponsors are pulling out, white house seemed to indicate it would not pass it about a week ago.

to be honest, i don't think it's entirely down to lobbying by Google, maybe i'm naive but i think the public outcry really had an effect here...for example the white house's first statement against was a response to an internet petition.

so you know, maybe a bit of hope in that all the hue and cry does seem to have helped (IMO)

major label CDs have DRM? not the ones i buy

i don't think that's readily apparent. or, obvious the interested parties didn't see a game so one-sided they didn't bother to show up to play, did they?

this isn't like the single-payer health plan bill john dingell filed every year for 40 years, it was a real divide.

i think the web panic of your jimmy wales types had a real effect btw. plenty of other telecom/IP issues come and go w/o more than the core of committed activists knowing or caring, usually just to bemoan another loss.

xp 2 shakey

lol wuht everyone who is not a goddamn idiot knows that ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING is one click away at this point

― “How you like that, Mr. Hitler!” (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 January 2012 09:41 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you're assuming that everyone knows how to pirate stuff. They don't.

On a different but related point, recently I found out my dad has been pirating music and he didn't even know it. He found an app on his Android phone that gave him free access to a load of music, then one day called me asking why the app had vanished.