Sonic Youth: Classic or Dud/S&D?

make no mistake, they redefined the guitar. they didn't simply dumb down branca for rock audiences (which someone could argue the velvets did re lamonte young), they added their own signature with new prepared guitar textures and tunings and ecstatic dissonant climaxes. they went from the post-pil jamming on the first ep to the mix of hardcore punk and no wave and dark noise on the first album to the industrial grind/shimmer of bad moon rising to the blissful intimate genderfuck of evol (generic??? want to argue that case?) to the rock-from-another-planet of sister. vocals and lyrics added a twisted but relevant dimension. and that's just the 80s.

ignoring daydream nation, which i've discussed elsewhere (read that thread, kate?), they continued to signify when they went mainstream. despite their numerous obvious errors, they continued to make inspiring work. dirty is not at all a watering down of any of their ideas. the instrumental breaks are constructed entirely differently than in their other work. the noise is used entirely in the service of abrasive, challenging songs. and how it is used! they have continued to display moments of genius in their post- washing machine work. they have unfortunately released a glut of product in recent years, only some of it as exciting as their best work. yet to simply dismiss the band, as it has become fashionable to do in indie circles (cf smiths backlash in uk), is just absurd. the best parts of goodbye 20th century are truly great.

pinefox: if it was anything like their montreal set last summer, it must have been divine. could you explain exactly what you dislike about public enemy, sonic youth, and iron maiden? anything beyond "tunelessness?" i am genuinely curious. i'm not even sure that tunefulness is the primary appeal of "to here knows when" or even "suffer little children."

My Sonic Youth Top Five:

1. Sister
2. Bad Moon Rising
3. "Kool Thing" (only really great if you read the Kim Gordon profile of LL Cool J for Spin, which inspired it)
4. Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star
5. Goodbye 20th Century

I'm actually shocked nobody brought up that last one, whether pro or con. I think it's fantastic, really beautiful in parts and really ugly/beautiful in others. Much better than any "regular" album they've put out since Goo.

Oh and Phil, do you know where I can find that LL profile?

That said, I think their career arc is pretty interesting -- starting weird and then getting conventional (by their standards, anyway) and then getting weird again, except that the weirdness on the other side is so much better than the early stuff.

I like the Sister-Daydream-Goo-Dirty quartet and then A Thousand Leaves best. Also liked Murray Street more than most I think.

"DY" is incredible, though. the kim gordon tracks especially - "kissability" is just filthy. i think "washing machine" may be undervalued - the first song on side two (can't remember the name) is their best Pop track.

People hating on Murray Street? Are you fucking kidding me?! Murray Street is an OUTSTANDING album that 99% of indie rock bands would have to consider themselves LUCKY to accomplish.

Wow; I don't know, Kilian. I mean I don't know how to respond to your disdain for Daydream nation. LIke, normally when I post around here I sort of try to acquit myself well and like mount intelligent defenses and stuff. But fuck it if you don't get Daydream Nation - one of the most consistently fascinating documents of four human beings picking up two guitars, a bass guitar, and a drum kit; - if you, kilian murphy, can't listen to that record and find meaning in it... well, I dunno. Fuck it, I guess.

But Christ, Sonic Youth! Ah well, whatever.

he's only saying that their long players, if played back-to-back, would start to grate: i think this could be said about most long players by most bands (though not many got to make them).

a couple of Mr. Snrub's "destroys" strike me as so counter-productive that i'm assuming he's playing devil's advocate. but generally, isn't arguing about this song or that song just a bit like arguing about spare change in the case of this band ?

I'd always thought that they were presenting their image as a send-up: "We love our indie roots, and still we're not afraid to let you know it." Still, many people love SY cause they can connect certain songs to specific events that happened in their lives. That's not unusual, however.

oh come on: i think its great that some 40 year olds are still making rock music and still having a group that they started with unlike awful 'solo' projects that rockstars have to cash in on their 'fame' (they do have solo projects but just as another thing, SY is always something they all come back to).

that is true, but not for sy
and Jim O'Rourke, after ten years of frantic activity, and he's a rock star ? so sy are looking after him, ok..
but where does so-called Thurstin' f'r Moore get off calling O'Rourke "our Eno" ?

George if thurston did call O'rouke their ''eno'' i'd say its probably a fair comparison: O'rouke makes solo records, collaborations and produces other people's records.

x-post: I thought it was a joke at first but thiking more abt it i think its a half-joke/half-compliment too.

Live video from the 1991 tour with Neil Young & Crazy Horse, filmed from side-stage by Young's guitar & bass tech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmh-Q8JWPqw

Set list:

noise intro/Tom Violence
Brother James
Eric's Trip
(I Got A) Catholic Block
Dirty Boots
I Love Her All the Time
Kool Thing
Expressway To Yr Skull/noise outro

OK, when I shared the video link on Facebook, it actually provided a date and location — February 24, 1991 at Brendan Byrne Arena in NJ! This is the show I was at!

^ after being confused by some Bruce Springsteen setlists, I found out this Arena still exists, but it changes names every couple of years:

1981–1996: Brendan Byrne Arena
1996–2007: Continental Airlines Arena
2007–2015: Izod Center
2016–Present: Meadowlands Arena

Will always be Brendan Byrne to me. Saw Duran Duran there in 84 on seven and the ragged tiger/reflex tour.

A friend of mine's younger sister went to that tour as a junior high/middle school student and came away not knowing quite what to make of opening act Erasure.

I guess the Arena still exists, but apparently has been closed to the public since 2015 - only used for rehearsals and filming.

they posted a cryptic image to IG of the Washing Machine cover but with “2026” on it

idc if they do a cash grab reunion tour, I never saw them when they were around the first time so I am in and will fight any and everyone to go

But it prob won’t be a tour, just some reissues or new Levi’s tees

👀

when I've interviewed Lee and Steve in the past, they've both teased the idea of a big Washing Machine box set kinda thing, which would be rad.

I think the ship has sailed on an actual SY reunion, though I'd love to be proven wrong. Or maybe it'd just be totally awkward.

Paz Lenchantin subbing in for Kim.

lol unperson

I’ve been waiting for this reissue (which has been written up as in progress over the last few years)

from 2022:

In/Out/In won’t be the last Sonic Youth archival dig. A deluxe version of 1995’s Washing Machine, largely completed but awaiting release, will include demos, live material from that period, and several different version of their epic “Diamond Sea.” (That release may not come until the album’s 30th anniversary, so be prepared to wait at least three years.) A deluxe edition of 1987’s Sister is also being readied.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/sonic-youth-in-out-in-1284378/

thurston canceled his book tour last year due to his heart condition, i don't think he's in any shape to go back on the arena revival circuit, that is unless...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLeslavEByQ

think I saw Shelly announce the box on instagram or fb or something about an hour ago.

As of now, Shelley’s Instagram just shows the same cryptic image. I’m assuming the reissue, which is fine by me. Love the album and I’ll take as many versions of “The Diamond Sea” as they wanna share.

YEah, Washing Machine is one of my absolute faves and I would love, love, love to hear more of it

it's just, why wouldn't they put out the reissue this year then, on the 30th anniversary? did someone drop the ball here

They were reissuing Hold That Tiger instead

But also as I understand it the Washing Machine reissue is being done with Geffen which means working with a major label and they move slowly, esp if the margin is likely to be slim, as with SY

the WM box has been done for over 3 years according to my previous post.