The Doors: Classic or Dud?

[Hey, I romanticize (Sturm und Drang Romantic) the music that I love, music that affects me viscerally, too. So I'm also laughing at myself here.]

Roger, the Stones are NOT rock - as "proven" by dave q and mark s on this thread. Best not to get into your question, tho' or we'll be here all night.

(heh, ignore me I'm just shit- stirring having just read Dr.C's excellent rant on the ABBA thread)

Rock and Roll for me is the Doors, is the Stones. If it's not them, please tell me who it is because I want to hear them. See, I can take people dissing the Doors and the Stones, that's fine, but to say they don't rock, or to question their rock and roll pedigree is plain silly. Virtually everything percieved to be 'rock and roll' is prevalent and highly potent in the phenomena that was these two bands (the Stones have sucked for over two decades now).

I would go so far as to say The Doors and the Stones are intrinsic to our understanding, reception, reaction to and interpretation of 'rock and roll'. Jagger and Morrison inarguably set the mould for the 'rock star', (though of course, they were indebted to others).

Certainly, I'm not sure that I suggested for one nanosecond that I wanted to rock in one way only. I think what I said was that the Stones and the Doors are rock and roll. Refute me.

Not that I particularly want another argument with you, but I was responding to that chap who said the Stones are not rock. I say they are. You say potato.

Finally, when you define rock as a "stupid 4 letter word," adding "there are better ways to talk about things" I'd like to ask to what ways you are referring.

What definition of rock are you alluding to here

Rock and Roll for me is the Doors, is the Stones. If it's not them, please tell me who it is because I want to hear them

This is great because you're so confident other people give a shit about "rock and roll" you actually think someone's going to go "NO NO MY FAVOURITE BAND ROCKS! I SWEAR THEY REALLY DO!". You say "rock and roll for me is the doors, is the stones" as if this automatically means they are good, as if the genre automatically means this, and most laughably as if everyone else here will think that too.

Look around, there aren't many here who wet themselves as much as you over "rock and roll" or the "rock star". Noone cares if you think the Stones and the Doors have an exclusive right to being able to "rock and roll" because noone really values that term anyway.

I'm sure you were responding to someone else, it's just so constantly tempting to take the piss out of your "rockers and ravers uniting" and "for me that's rock and roll" bullshit.

To address: "you're so confident other people give a shit about "rock and roll" you actually think someone's going to go "NO NO MY FAVOURITE BAND ROCKS! I SWEAR THEY REALLY DO!"

No, I'm the one who seems to give a shit - go all gushy and excited stroke vitriolic and then take all the shit. That I am confident people give a shit is not true - I know nothing of these boards or the regulars such as your good self. I am the paranoid new boy who gets ripped up because he gets all enthusiastic, and is considered a 'troll' (though I still have no idea what a troll is because no-one has explained).

* * *

"You say "rock and roll for me is the doors, is the stones" as if this automatically means they are good"

Did I? I thought I defined the Stones and Doors as 'good' as you put it, in relation to my perceptions of rock and roll. I think what I was saying was The Stones and the Doors do 'rock and roll', according to my terms, better than most other bands I can think of. That those terms are rigid is an incorrect assumption on your part.

- "as if the genre automatically means this" means what???

* * *

"Look around, there aren't many here who wet themselves as much as you over "rock and roll" or the "rock star". Noone cares if you think the Stones and the Doors have an exclusive right to being able to "rock and roll" because noone really values that term anyway."

So what? Why do you presume that it matter whether no-one cares? And who said anything about 'exclusive rights'? That no-one really values the term rock and roll is not for you to say Ronan. Perhaps you are right though, and I am appreciating this type of music for all the wrong reasons... What are the right ones?

In closing, may I add that you are a capable sparring partner but assume too much Ronan. That I talk bullshit is certain, but in the terms that you suggest is equally as shit-filled.

I do not buy that for one second. Or even a quarter of a second.

Your story has become tiresome. Not to mention predictable.

1: It's true - I found these boards last week. How many times do I need to say it? What kind of a closed forum is this?

2: The story is tiresome because you lot keep necessitating its repetition. Strange that it is so hard to accept.

3: The predicatability I can do nothing about.

Now I finally understand where all this anti-Rockist sentiment comes from, Mr. Ewing. You're actually incapable of loving Der Rock Und Roll, and YOU'RE JEALOUS OF THE REST OF US!! :)

When you come visit NYC and/or Philly, I promise to teach you The Ways Of Rock. Maura will help, I'm sure.

I still like that new song but I honestly reckon "the ILM Mafia" ahem and their constant Primal Scream hatred will actually lessen my enjoyment of the new album, if I even buy it. It worked with Spiritualized Let It Come Down to the point where I can't tell if (a) I like it as a response to the dislike (b)I dislike it because of the criticism or (c)I dislike it (for my own reasons) but won't admit that to myself because it would be giving in to the criticism.

the reasons for you liking things are kind of superficial/cliched even...rock is a 'marketing' term designed by record companies to sell recs (oh yes, the m- word again). Genre words can give an idea abt instrumentation used but little else, it is very reductive.

the 'rock' word has gone through a lot since then, a lot of things have happened to that. I'd say the doors had a bit of 'psychedelia' in them too, the sound was kind of strange, for a start rock bands have a bass player and the doors didn't. Saying something is 'rock' (in this case anyway) just won't do.

I was kind of pissed off abt your comments on rock vs. rap thread as well...

But the fact is that your routine, as it were, seems to be dredging up old threads about classic bands, spouting some ill-considered and dare I say juvenile rhetoric about how they are awesome, and working down from there. Maybe you should sit back for a few days and read some old threads, as well as archived FT articles to get a handle on the general tone of the discussion before you post another rant. We do tend to get fairly agressive with each other on these boards, but watching you and Ronan go at it has put me off almost as much as the grand old days of Doompatrol (use the search engine if you really want to know).

The only thing I think might count as 'trolling' is calling yourself "Roger Fascist".

Julio: can I state that to say my reasons for liking things are "kind of superficial/cliched even" is horrendous claptrap. My reasons are fundamental (to me, though clearky not to you). About that rock verses rap thread... yeah, sorry about that. I thought it was quite funny though. As for the marketing tripe, you are assuming too much. Rock and Roll is not just a musical style to me, it is an ethos. Yet you are right - continued use of the word in generic terms is reductive. I think the soul comments are related to how an individual views music on a fundamental level. That's a long story though...

Dave: Thank you for the guidance. I have been happily adding to old threads, sure, because I take an (dis)interest in these things. However I think my humour seems to have drifted way out to the leftfield on these boards and my failure to appreciate how fundamentally seriously the regulars seem to take posts here has been very much to my detriment. Ah, it's my way to be dismissive but by the same token, I love a fight. I had a look at the other threads and forums but the classics or duds is to me the most interesting - it seems to arouse such distaste in people.

Ronan: You seem to have a very big problem with me old chap. Still, the feeling is reciprocal so it's alright - I think you don't know what you're talking about too. You are too keen to wade in with the personal attacks though, you should spend less time focussing on what you think I am and more on dealing with what I am actually saying.

I also don't have a problem with revisiting classic old threads on a regular basis - it sure beats scrabbling around for the last few C/Ds or all that POO nonsense.

Wasn't Roger Fascist a Viz character, or is that irrelevant?

well, why don't you expand on it because i'd like to know. I want to get to what people's reasoning here.

''As for the marketing tripe, you are assuming too much''

It's a genre name that doesn't tell us abt the diversity within that...what's so wrong about this?

''About that rock verses rap thread... yeah, sorry about that. I thought it was quite funny though.''

I thought it was kind of misinformed and kinda 'funny'.

I'm not even going to bother to explain why, because I'm feeling lazy and there's no point; today's doofus hipsters have already made their Jim hatred well known.

Agree 100% with John B. as to which records are best. Funny the way their career arced like that.

"And then...she tried the second bowl...and it was too cold...and then...she tried...the THIRD bowl...and then...she ate it all UPPPPPPPPPGGHHHH!!!!"

hey diamond check out the other dors threads for more jim hataz type mentalism!

But that doesn't make it any less true."

Tom is reading my mind here.

LA Woman is probably their best, either that or the debut.

No way, you always get to choose sides with this. Much like fart jokes, you never outgrow it.

Crazy doesn't get a look in.

Frog Chorus in the wings, croaking in vain.

mashup idea:

"(Peace) Froggy Went A-Courtin'"

LMAO

I like "Peace Frog" too. Even though there's only a few cuts from Morrison Hotel that I kept in my library ("Peace Frog" being one), it's actually an okay album. Not a great one, but mostly listenable.

Love Indian Summer and The Spy off Morrison Hotel.

I Can't See Your Face In My Mind

“The Soft Parade” is the first disco song ever, specifically the “Peppermint miniskirts” bit. Loop that over and over again and you’ll be disco-dancing fool. CHANGE MY MIND.

my issues with this band are widely documented on ILM, but i'm really enjoying listening to Weird Scenes Inside the Gold Mine, which i guess was a comp intended to speak to their jammier/proto-proggier side or something? like it has some of their big hits, but not their earlier, poppier hits besides, significantly, "Break On Through." and a lot more extended droney, arguably monotonous jams. so i think it paints a picture of the band that i can be on the same wavelength of. although lugubrious in places, and stops dead in its tracks for "You Need Meat" imho, it works better than their Greatest Hits that i dug out of my parents' collection as a teenager, which had those other songs like "Light My Fire" and "Love Me Two Times" and "People Are Strange." (i don't dislike them because they're poppier, to be clear, i've just never found them very exciting as 60s pop-rock songs!) "Hello I Love You" i think i like in my head, but it's really "Crush With Eyeliner" my brain is conjuring, mostly.

really was tempted to do another Honkin' on Bobo display name, with "Mister Mojo Risin'" ...but that's gotten so firmly attached to "Mister JoJo Rabbit" after seeing the posters for that movie at the subway entrance for six months.

"Weird Scenes" is a great comp and yeah it was specifically meant to highlight their more out/weirder stuff vs the stuff that was on "13".

You Need Meat is insanely bad, I'm pretty sure the only person who thought Ray should sing a song was Ray

"Who Scared You" is a great b-side on that record, and would have been better than a lot of the songs that made it onto Soft Parade.

oh wow this comp hits the spot

I started wondering last night: what songs from the original six Doors albums have never been extracted for a compilation? By my count, there are only eight:

I Looked At You
My Wild Love
Yes The River Knows
The Soft Parade
Indian Summer
Been Down So Long
L'America
Crawling King Snake

Two or three good ones!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMiAQPABgHA

...The group’s 60th anniversary celebration is upon us, too — starting next month with some key archival releases. Arriving Nov. 22 via Rhino’s High Fidelity audiophile vinyl series is The Doors 1967-1971, a limited edition (3,000 copies) six-LP set that houses the six studio albums the band released during late frontman Jim Morrison’s lifetime. A week later, for Record Store Black Friday, Rhino will release a four-disc remastered vinyl edition of Live in Detroit, taken from a May 8, 1970, concert at the city’s famed Cobo Arena. The 25-song set is the longest concert the Doors ever performed, according to band manager Jeff Jampol of JAM Inc.

Following those, in early 2025, will be Night Divides the Day, a 344-page book from Britain’s Genesis Publications that includes new interviews with Densmore and guitarist Robby Krieger, archival material from Morrison and the late keyboardist Ray Manzarek, commentary from other colleagues, friends and admirers, a treasure trove of photos, a foreword by Nirvana bassist Krist Novoselic and an afterward by conductor and composer Gustavo Dudamel (a recent Billboard cover subject). The 2,000 numbered box sets will be signed by Krieger and Densmore and come with rare demo recordings of “Hello, I Love You” and “Moonlight Drive” on a 7-inch vinyl disc. It’s available for pre-order here.

Cops in cars, the chocolate bars

Peppermint miniskirts, chocolate candy

Sidewalk crouches at huh feet
Like uh dawwg that begs for somethin sweet
Do you hope to make her see, you fool?
Do you hope to pluck this dusky jewel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsbIXm30c8k

femme d’LA
Dimanche apres midi

I have a bunch of back-up CD-R's for albums I'm not sure I want to own - mostly "audiophile" masterings that I wouldn't want to purchase if I didn't like the music that much. This past week I decided to give L.A. Woman another try as I was on a late '60s/early '70s California kick, and for whatever reason, it clicked. For the first time ever, I found myself enjoying a Doors album from start to finish. (It kind of helped to remember that the songs could be tongue-in-cheek.) Also having Jerry Scheff (Elvis Presley's TCB Band) fill in on bass was a good idea - he does an excellent job.

It was enough to send me over to Morrison Hotel and the debut, but I still found them very uneven. tbf lot of great stuff on the debut and some of my favorites are on Morrison Hotel, but as an unbroken listening experience, I much preferred L.A. Woman.

I still play The Soft Parade all the way through. Sort of like my love for the CURE's The Top, I feel like they are under appreciated flawed masterpieces, both with epic closing title tracks as well.