Simpin Ain't Easy: The Official Thread For Drake's Sophomore Album, TAKE CARE

yes some dude otm

as a rapper?? no way. meek mill connects w/ people in a way ross never will

― AFAP Raggett (D-40), Thursday, November 10, 2011 3:42 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

well i don't think this is true -- i mean it's a weird blanket statement, obviously, but i also think that meek mill was able to use ross as a springboard because ross has started to connect w/ ppl in the way that you mean

to me its just that he's chosen hip-hop to be his vehicle when the kind of music he makes doesn't fit into that framework. His whole approach . Hip-hop's language, its way of speaking & of bragging, has always been the language of the struggle & it feels like he tries to co-opt that language and it just comes across as blatant cynical branding imo, instead of organic understanding.

― AFAP Raggett (D-40), Thursday, November 10, 2011 3:41 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

"he's co-opting the language of the struggle" really sounds a thinly veiled way of saying he's not a good rapper because he was never poor fyi

propose that ren be forced to changed his display name to "I know I"m in the minority here."

― J0rdan S., Thursday, November 10, 2011 6:49 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

I actually don't think I'm in the minority as much as it sometimes feels like.

Do you not agree with my assessment of Andre's verse?

no that i agree with

"he's co-opting the language of the struggle" really sounds a thinly veiled way of saying he's not a good rapper because he was never poor fyi

― some dude, Friday, 11 November 2011 01:55 (2 hours ago) Permalink

yeah i know, i make this point in full understanding that there is a class implication to what i'm saying. i dont think the problem is that he was 'never authentically poor,' though, its that he's trying to make a 'struggle' in the actual text of his music -- and that others have made in defense of that music -- around the idea that acting like a self-involved 'wounded' 'vulnerable' person gives him an equally powerful 'struggle' to rap about -- i find that narrative really thin, though, the implication that he ever had it hard bcuz he dared to be 'different' to be v facile

i mean, al, i would argue that there is an actual connection between rap's actual way of speaking, its style & its presentation, that comes directly from poverty. the problem isn't that drake is rich, its that he uses that language that comes from poverty to present a story that doesn't have that class conflict as a part of it but expresses his own challenges in that language which to me trivializes him

im not sure if i'm explaining this well. but there is something disingenuous about him comparing the travails of a successful child star with the travails of the bulk of other rappers who are telling v. different stories that grates to me.

well i don't think this is true -- i mean it's a weird blanket statement, obviously, but i also think that meek mill was able to use ross as a springboard because ross has started to connect w/ ppl in the way that you mean

― J0rdan S., Thursday, November 10, 2011 7:51 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

i'm not talking about his songs connecting with people -- obviously ross has a much larger audience -- i'm talking about his actual rapping. not just the lyrics, but his style.

maybe i'm wrong tho that video bw posted of fat trel rapping ross verses all impassioned was kind of o_O to me

well i think maybe that it wasn't only critics who a couple years ago started going "fuck this guy can really rap now!"

i mean his music isn't as reliant on lyrics as lots of rappers, but i don't think think that means that he doesn't have a lot of verses that 'connect'

yeah no i get that his lyrics being more well written is a big part of why ppl fuck with him now that werent a couple years ago. but i almost feel like that's in service of the success of the song, more than it is like, people memorizing ross verses

for me, there's still kind of nothing at the center of a rick ross verse, its all just empty celebration at the end of the day. its just that now there are some more memorable images attached. but to artists like boosie going back thru max b, mac dre, soulja slim, pac, scarface, all the big names, theres a bigger story & a stronger sense of something going on unique to those artists that i dont really get from ross. at the end of the day he's kind of one note. its just a very pretty one

well def -- as i said in the other thread, ross didn't come up in that way. as shipley pointed out, he has no mixtapes! how crazy is that. he's obviously always been about the songs.

rozay was a success in the end, wasn't he?

in terms of anomalous swizz productions on otherwise-middling rap albums, 'lord knows' > 'on to the next one'

lord knows is just blaze

E-40 is the best rapper right now, fuiud.

^^^

lord knows is just blaze

― AFAP Raggett (D-40), Friday, November 11, 2011 1:04 AM (5 hours ago)

oh right lol

"the ride" is so crucial

don't remember which one that is but it's probably not

well it wasn't on any of the leaked copies, so

im not sure if i'm explaining this well.

This is actually the first time I feel like you've explained your deeper objections to Drake well, tbh.

That sounds more negative than I intended it, but what I'm trying to say is I now understand where you're coming from.

yeah i think what deej said is kind of ridiculous personally. drake is not the first successful rapper to not come from a rough neighborhood or poor family, and i don't see how his 'middle class kid takes his drive to be successful as seriously as anyone from the projects' persona is that different from, say, kanye's, to name one obvious precursor. i honestly think drake's music sucks because of his MUSIC, his vocals and his lyrics and his ear, and being a canadian cornball who grew up in show biz is pretty much incidental.

my problem with Drake continues to be the fact that he sounds like he should be doing voices for Saturday morning cartoons, and not...rapping.

...but with that said, I have not heard this album and don't wish to go all lex on it until then.

drake is going to be a voice in the next ice age movie fyi (as a character named ethan, hilariously)

hahahahahahahahaha

hahahaha that is amazing

drake is SUCH an ethan

i will also admit wholeheartedly that the main reason I have reservations about liking this album is that i've been clowning Drake for months on social media and won't get to anymore :/. but that's not a reason to dislike something tho.

it's okay, i wrote a whole blog post once about hating drake and now look at me

I also did a major reversal on the Rolling Stones over a period of two years so my friends will have to deal

yeah i think what deej said is kind of ridiculous personally. drake is not the first successful rapper to not come from a rough neighborhood or poor family, and i don't see how his 'middle class kid takes his drive to be successful as seriously as anyone from the projects' persona is that different from, say, kanye's, to name one obvious precursor. i honestly think drake's music sucks because of his MUSIC, his vocals and his lyrics and his ear, and being a canadian cornball who grew up in show biz is pretty much incidental.

― some dude, Saturday, November 12, 2011 1:29 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

um, thats not what i said? did you read it at all>?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eosGkndaIFM/TBopYIrX1bI/AAAAAAAANd0/yp2eTEPCY5k/s1600/boxing_round1.jpg

obviously drake's not even the 100th rapper to not be from a poor neighborhood. its the way he presents his struggles as if they are a parallel or related struggle to wider struggles that are intrinsic to rap's language that is off putting

kanye did have a 'struggle' to overcome -- that's actually very key to his early work -- 'through the wire,' the car accident, overcoming the stigma from roc a fella that he could never be a rapper, and the tools he used to combat that -- humor, self deprecation -- made his use of hip-hop's 'language of struggle' a lot easier to understand. with drake its like he tried to do the same thing, but his struggle doesnt feel like it ever really existed. i just don't buy that things have been hard for him, point blank. and the things that have been hard for him, he's unsuccessfully conveyed to me -- they simply dont resonate. i'm sorry that as a child star with all the access and money in the world and an existing fanbase and being seen as reasonably attractive made for a mild bump in the road on your sudden quest for fame that you now moan about?

i mean, even ignoring that kanye at one point had 'spaceship' tracks that directly addressed shit that ive personally felt, his struggle always felt a lot more like an uphill climb

for christ's sake al this isn't about authenticity

i feel like saying 'i just dont like his voice' or w/e is a surface criticism but doesn't really explain what it is that doesn't work for you about the music; i mean, its an unimpeachable attack, so congratulations on stopping any conversation about what his art tries or fails to accomplish, but i think that's a much less compelling argument than mine

drake's 'nobody thought i could be a rap star because i was a kid actor from canada' narrative isn't THAT different from kanye's 'nobody thought i could be a rap star because i was a producer and was never a gangsta' narrative imo

well, in their art it is very different

drake makes his struggle seem distant and faintly ridiculous, while kanye makes his seem funny & improbable

that said, i think in real terms kanye was much more of a longshot -- even becoming a producer in the first place was a huge long shot

*successful producer

i mean fwiw i think there's a HUGE problem in rap with these earnest dorks growing up idolizing jay-z and making WANTING to be a superstar the central facet of their identity, and it's equally tiresome whether they actually become a superstar or not. but that their boring record industry 'struggles' are described in the same language as much more serious life struggles is a pretty small part of why that makes for rappers with shitty music and/or unctuous public personas.

the diff between Kanye and Drake is that Drake is ugly iirc

im going to reword that whole post:

drake makes his struggle seem distant and faintly ridiculous, while kanye makes his seem funny & although improbable, also relatable

that said, i think in real terms kanye becoming a producer on major label records in the first place was already a longshot, overcoming the 'he cant rap' stigma was simple yet another obstacle to overcome

― When snap was real ... Thumbs up if you agree (D-40), Saturday, November 12, 2011 1:50 PM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

like i'm sure his teachers in school asked him what he wanted to be when he grew up and he said "rapper" and they pursed their lips and said "have you considered carnie work?"

i mean i honestly don't see that much of a difference from the sincere argument you're making right now and the facetious 'i don't like drake because he isn't authentic' thing you were doing a few days ago.

simplY

i cant type

i mean i honestly don't see that much of a difference from the sincere argument you're making right now and the facetious 'i don't like drake because he isn't authentic' thing you were doing a few days ago.

― some dude, Saturday, November 12, 2011 1:52 PM (19 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i never made this argument idiot