Simon Reynolds - C or D

This makes me think that SR's judgement is silly.

Thanks for your valuable input. I happen to be a proud Dissensian and a MIA fan. Try thinking before posting.

pf -- i think an article he wrote on the stone roses back in 'the day' included the quote 'it's not where you're from it's where you're at', as voiced by ian brown but original from eric b and rakim c. 1987. somehow when he saw it, he thought the t-shirt was referencing ian brown -- which maybe in new york would give this anglo a rush? especially since the reversal for some reason meant something to reynolds, who has long had an interest in the concept of authenticity.

MIA's lyrics seem to be an abstract pastiche patois of urban,third-world,terroism-chic etc. I think they're in fact too vague to really criticize as harshly as so many have.

who has long had an interest in the concept of authenticity.

I'm very willing to believe this now, but it's never really struck me before. Is there something specific from one of his books?

It's not where you're from, it's where you live.

Current whereabouts takes precedence over origins.

Let me guess, YSI thread?

I don't think it's a comparison thing--just that a lot of Americans (in my experience at least) seem unable to distinguish the one voice from the other

Try to to keep your tongue away from Reynolds' nutsack. Thanks for posting. LOL@you calling yourself a proud dissensian and not realising how pitiful such an admission is.

because hes not just an authority on music but race as well! he knows everything!

DO TEHY MEAN ME? THEY SURELY DO!!!

LOOK LOOK ILM CALM IT DOWN I BE RUNNIN' TINGS AT DISSENSUS ALL IS IREIE AND GOOD WITYHMY MAN WOEBOT HE IS RUNNIN TINGS I THINK WE IS COMPO TO YOUR PROVERBIAL CLEGGS AND FOGGYS LOL LOL LOL THATS HOW WE BE RUNNIN' THATS HOW WE BE RUNNIN TINGS

I'M A MAN OF PECAE I GOT NO BEEF WITH NONE A YA PLAYA HATAZ LOL WE SHOULD ALL GO SEE BONKERS SOON THAT 'D BE GOOD BROTHERS BE SLAMMIN IT DOWN! MIA'S ALRIGHT BUT SHE'S NO JULIANA HATFILED THATS A FACT THATS SOMETHING THAT CAN'T BE DENIED LOL LOL BIGGING UP TO KATIE M

LOL

CHECK OUT THE KOOKS THEY ROCK!!!

PEACE

Yeah I reckon Feminine Principle is probably the absolute pinnacle of mid-era (pre-nu-rockist) Simon's work.

"Now, I feel like he's placing new music into his own highly developed theory/map-of-music which acts as a barrier to his 'pure' enjoyment of the 'sounds'."

Simon responded directly to this charge (I kinda implied it on a Dissensus thread) by saying that he was merely attempting to explain his own reactions - any map-of-music tendencies are simply attempts to diagnose and theorise the patterns in his reactions. I'm inclined to accept this and assume that Simon's inability to flat-out adore M.I.A. is a "real" reaction (i.e. a matter of base level perception/enjoyment) - it's not inconceivable that some people might be left wanting more from Arular, for whatever reason.

The bigger danger in this regard is not so much distorting/subverting the path of one's own enjoyment, but rather proceeding too quickly from one's own experiences to some grand theory-of-everything that doesn't allow for the multiplicity and ambiguity of effects that music can have.

Of course Simon (and Matt Woebot and Mark K-Punk) muddied the waters a bit by using the M.I.A. debate as a launchpad for an attack on popists who will risk everything to protect their own enjoyment. But I really think this argument is ultimately a red herring, used for strategic purposes more than anything else: none of the three Dissensus heavyweights ever propose to seriously question their own enjoyment (or lack thereof in some instances), so they in effect place themselves outside of their own critical programme.

When one of them finally and openly says "I love this piece of music but objectively speaking I shouldn't and therefore won't love it any longer", we will know that they take their own nu-rockist anti-enjoyment crusade seriously.

the ancient baltimore club track that they sample in the mia tune (called "you big dummy") is better though.

Yes, that's a big part of the problem, isn't it? If there's a beef I have it'd be with things like this--less the actual ideas (we can always argue about ideas) but more the methods. Taking up the odious "everyone does this but us" technique. Taking up the "I will take one small detail from your argument and focus on that, ignoring all the parts that I cannot actually argue with" technique. The "I am seemingly being cordial but actually being a total cunt" technique. Basically, all the bad parts of arguing on teh int3ernets, but applied to arguing about theory. It makes me feel dirty, like we're having a Kirk v. Piccard flame-war, and that's exactly what I never wanted this to become.

Of course, I also never wanted to write tortuous sentences like the above. Can't always get what you want.

i followed that debate a little (a little k-punk goes a long way) and i don't know that this is a fair summary -- i mean which popists are 'risking everything' exactly? what does this even mean?

There are people on Dissensus whom I do enjoy reading and who do post interesting stuff, e.g. K-P, Stelfox, Derek W, Tim F (when he's on there), but otherwise it's a bit like the local Rotary Club with some pomo added.

there was a smudge on my computer monitor that made "some pomo added" look like "some porno added", thus quite drastically altering the meaning. anyway, carry on.

*smokes plastic kid's toy bubble pipe*

there are ways of doing things, of course: maybe the popists are reacting to the misplaced puritanism of political correctness. i think most ilm types are involved in some kind of complex negotiation when listening to homophobic/sexist lyrics though, and i think it's a lie (or just worrying!) to say 'oh i can just ignore all that'.

there's also obviously the possibility, esp with rap, dancehall etc, of listening primarily in terms of beats, production etc rather than the lyrics. this is how i naturally listen to much of aforementioned music, rather than because i'm privileging anything on ideological grounds.

equally, tho, it is posssible to some extent to ignore the cultural baggage surrounding a piece of music by not immediately discounting it in terms of the demographic that likes it. i'm sure i wouldn't much like the majority of girls aloud or 50 cent fans, but that's not going to stop me listening to the music with an open mind. this debate's been reduced by people insisting on absolutes, particularly in terms of the popist position.

i think marcello is otm, but haha yes very good 'blount move', 'life isn't like that etc etc', i'm not tuomas though, i know this stuff, but what can i say? oh, i know, i said COMPEX NEGOTIATION which i'm involved in too. you won't find any black eyed peas in my cd collection, but you will find ludacris and, yes, schoolly d.

i think i probably would like girls aloud's fans (not 50 cent's though).

i listen to music mostly for production and don't always trouble to figure out lyrics, but i still think this position, which spencer took, is a bit disingenuous.

the effect of this sly, self-legitimating move, in ilm terms, is to say that 'i can fully identify with ordinary working folk who like pop music for the simple reason that it sounds good but i dislike those who listen to rap music about the streets on a non-authentic basis'. it's back-door rockism masquerading as popism!