teengirl fantasy, miracles club, mi ami, 100% silk and the rise of HIPSTER HOUSE: S/D

heh...yeah after all these years i can't believe i'm still toeing the breakbeat line.

four on the floor vs breakbeats...it was a case of choose your battle lines, draw it in the sand and toe it.

this sounds like a such a sad state to be in... where i grew up the more technical househeads (in terms of footwork) were also all big into breakbeat

Amanda Brown interview re: 100% Silk

http://nofearofpop.net/2011/11/feature-amanda-brown-100-silk/

virtually no one was talking about the resurrection of classic house music

I think this shows we're talking about a lot of different people coming from a bunch of different places. Or maybe that shows the boiling over point of classic house resurrection, something that people within dance music had been talking about for some time. It's hard to put a number on it but like, Frankie Knuckle's mixing Hercules in 2008 was the moment I thought classic house music resurrection became the topic of the moment.

It kind of depends "which" classic house doesn't it. You could probably make a claim for any year you wanted. There was a pretty huge adonis-style chicago revival circa 2004, for example. And then massive records like "The Sun Can't Compare" in 2006. But maybe "blind" was when the idea became apparent to people more divorced from dance currents.

this sounds like a such a sad state to be in...where i grew up

...it was junglists vs househeads and never the twain shall meet

There seemed to be a natural progression from the middle of the decade till now where disco revival gave way to house revival.

but there's always anomalies, I remember retro acid-house parties in NY in 2002 or whenever.

but I guess it's also about whether it comes from within modern threads of dance culture or without, or to what degree does it reach out.

i think the hipster house thing has more to do with classic house and/or techno becoming influential outside of dance culture tho, not sure this is even really catching in other areas of the dance music world outside of maybe john talabot playing a track in one of his sets (could be wrong about this tho, things change fast etc)

and clearly stir's interest is at least a liiittle piqued

I think sooner or later it's impact will encroach. I'll try not to get back to dropping too many names or out "I was there"-ing James Murphy, but when Glass Candy put out their first "disco" 12" nobody gave a shit and they had a hard time getting people's attention, particularly from the proper dance music communities (whether mainstream or more underground). Or going back further, even though Metro Area came out from people with proper dance cred, it wasn't accepted right away. I thInk both cases they eventually made (from where I sit), major genre-changing influence across wide swaths of dance music.

Vibes Management just hosted Juan Atkins this past weekend. Teengirl Fantasy opened up. Whether people get turned on to what new sounds these artists are injecting...or simply jump on a bandwagon of something riding a wave of hype, the impact will grow until it's swallowed up and it's all just different degrees of dance music anyway.

danced to hipster house 2nite, it was p fun, pysched for the 'real' show here inna couple of weeks

i have a bunch to say but i do think idk the whole dance/no dance thing... i think the way 100% silk et al exist partially outside of 'dance music' is interesting and comforting to me, lets me feel at east/'part of' the music cuz it shares some parts of my own sensibility w/o fucking with some at night hes a tourist d-d-d-dance music culture shit, always at a remove. dont know if thats 'valuable' really, or if it even matters, but im p ambivalent abt how this is all perceived/synthesized w/in dance music broadly...

anyway think a couple of friends and i are going to do a one off nite of this at a bar here, see how it goes, feel p energized atm

Question: do people feel that 100% Silk exists outside of dance music in a way fundamentally different to 1st wave electoclash? If so, what is/are the key difference(s)?

idk i was in high school for 1st wave electroclash

sorry for terrible drunk posting also jeez

some of 100% silk in particular only exists 'outside' dance music in a v nominal/extramusical way tho, if thats what u mean

Question: do people feel that 100% Silk exists outside of dance music in a way fundamentally different to 1st wave electoclash?

no not really

kinda feels similar in that it was like a safe way for non dance/techno types like me to get into those sort of things

"safe"

Vibes Management just hosted Juan Atkins this past weekend. Teengirl Fantasy opened up. Whether people get turned on to what new sounds these artists are injecting...or simply jump on a bandwagon of something riding a wave of hype, the impact will grow until it's swallowed up and it's all just different degrees of dance music anyway.

interesting - just booked Miracles Club to open for Francois K in December here in DC. Curious to see what the audience mix is like and especially the reaction of the older FK fans to Miracles Club.

ya i think it's hard for me to analyze how first wave electroclash was received by the preexisting dance culture at the time because, even though i lived through it, i had zero conception of what 'dance music' was outside of end-of-year lists and college radio parties

I was already writing about dance music at the time and to me it mainly seemed like just another form of dance music which took influences from outside of dance music - in a long line of such things.

I guess the overriding implication of a more dichotomised notion of dance music circles versus outsiders is that it turns dance music into this monolithic unitary thing, when of course it's much more porous and dispersed, both sonically and socially.

i.e. It's not clear to me that 100% silk is more divorced from the mainstream of dance music on either metric than were Mille plateux or 2000 black or mo'wax, to cite three random examples.

electroclash was pretty much responsible for me getting into "proper" dance music

hey guys, please point me to the 100% silk stuff sounding really housey besides ital's only for tonight. most of the references i listened to doesn't sound like house/dance music AT ALL! like, i get old cabaret voltaire minimal synthy vibes or something from most of this shit but that's about it. even that first ital 12 has nothing housey about it (that particular one sounds more like shitty instrumental new order tracks pre-technique, or a lo-fied dead or alive circa youthquake???). so unless i was listening to all the wrong stuff i'm kinda perplexed by this *100% silk = nü house* thing

octo octa, but otherwise u otm

a lot of this stuff that i check out sounds weirdly out of tune

the magic touch, ital, octo octa, sir stephen and at least a third of the releases on 100% silk (especially recent ones) are extremely influenced by classic house. but as pointed out many times upthread and in the op it's super varied and we are generalizing all over the place

also tim - i'm not sure anyone is arguing that this is unprecedented in any way (see above posts re idib/dfa) but i don't think it necessarily leads to dance music being some monolithic thing at all (i wish i had time to expand on this but it's time to head to class so i'm forced to summarize). i just think that you're missing a large part of the story if you aren't also analyzing this stuff in the context of recent trend cycles in the noise/indie/drone circles from which it came

It's not clear to me that 100% silk is more divorced from the mainstream of dance music on either metric than were Mille plateux or 2000 black or mo'wax, to cite three random examples.

Or Mo' Wax from hip-hop...

With electroclash, there was still a strong connection to dance proper in my mind through International DJ Gigolos, 'Space Invaders Are Smoking Grass'/IF, Detroit influences from Dopplereffekt, Ersatz Audio/Adult., even Felix Da Housecat had a long history in house before 'Kittenz And Thee Glitz', or stuff like Green Velvet's 'La La Land' that was incorporated into many electroclash sets, but really can be equally read in terms of GV's own development through second wave Chicago House and stuff like 'Flash', and it's worth noting that Crosstown Rebels literally refers to Damien Lazarus' exodus from City Rockers following the Futurism comp. For all these reasons, and many more, electroclash had a far closer relationship to dance music at large than 100% Silk. If fact, most of the compelling and interesting stuff from electroclash, to my mind, came out from the dance direction into pop and rock formats, rather than vice versa.

i just think that you're missing a large part of the story if you aren't also analyzing this stuff in the context of recent trend cycles in the noise/indie/drone circles from which it came

Yeah I get this, and obviously something like Maria Minerva is difficult to describe as dance music. It's more that the way some of this stuff is being presented (e.g. in the interviews quoted upthread) it's like this kind of relationship to dance from the outside is, if not unprecedented, then almost non-existent currently. Whereas I think this is what genres tend to be about.

To me 100% Silk is actually by and large (though not always) less interesting the closer it drifts to being indistinguishable from other house music; most of my favourite material really effectively synthesises the dance music elements and the noise/indie/drone elements.

Frankie Knuckle's mixing Hercules in 2008 was the moment I thought classic house music resurrection became the topic of the moment.

I've been thinking about this a bit lately, I think what Tim says is definitely true, like obviously there have been endless house revivals, it's sort of inherent, but I do agree with Dan that there's some new watershed in the last few years.

I think the newer revival is a lot more about singers and male divas though. I feel like after a good few years of deep house dominating the more underground scene in Europe that a lot of the people who were into your Justice or whatev type clubs are now more into disco and house.

At least that's my experience of it...a friend of mine started a loosely gay night in Dublin a few years ago and it was all old electropop etc at first.

I'm DJing there this month and he swapped my date by two weeks cos Azari and III are playing at another venue and he said literally no other act could guarantee emptiness so strongly.

Anyway slightly tangential but I do find it good how the more, I suppose overtly gay, side of Chicago house has like FINALLY gotten through to your indie dance people...

Would definitely agree with the above.

A little late here but -- having not followed anything re: the label or style this year per se -- it was interesting last year to see a bit of this starting to gel at the second On Land festival. Thinking in particular about this night:

http://nedraggett.wordpress.com/2010/09/08/on-land-festival-2010-friday-shows/

And specifically Operative and White Rainbow's sets. (And then Oneohtrix Point Never after that, I suppose.) Given the crossover a lot of this crowd has/had with Not Not Fun via the Echo Curio/Smell it all happened pretty easily...

i dont really know if i see the connection bw white rainbow/OPN and this dancier stuff, tbh, ned. seems like there's an intersection in the fanbase, but i dont know about the music itself.

A lot of it is social/contextual, and can't be easily summed up -- the references above to indie/drone circles are key. There's no one to one connection but there is an overarching appreciation and supportive community, a space in which this has thrived and expanded.

the new forkner project, purple and green, is not hipster house but it is dancey as hell

in a mid-90s rnb kind of way

is there overlap with this scene and !!!/out hud? those guys' live shows verged on live goa trance at times

Very cool n' interesting thread. I'm gonna throw in a plug and beat Dan Selzer at his namedropping skills while pointing out just how deeply incestuous (in the best sense) we hipster housers are: I have an album coming soon on LIES that originally came about during a drunken convo with Legowelt about what kind of "fake soundtrack' I'd like to create for his StrangeLife label. LIES ended up wanting to release it after StraneLife went on hiatus. My record will have remixes by Steves Moore and Summers and Marcos Cabral. I once released a record on IDIB. I don't do yoga but I know Jan Woo.

steve moore remix = you have my complete attention

PS chicago's Traxx played a Halloween party last weekend that included a live Steve Summers set, etc. and everyone got down. Mightily. And it was a racially mixed crowd loving every minute of it. People are dancing.

Sorry to derail the thread with my plug. I feel dirty now. Carry on. I shall lurk.

YOU DAMN SCENESTER oh wait.

Blank - Justin V from !!!/OH a regular dj at brooklyn bar Tandem where many folks connected to the NY dance "scenes" go to dance/party on the regular. Everyone knows everyone and supports each others' endeavors for the most part.

Don't hate me, Ned.

justin v also has been releasing awesome edits and mixes under the 'try to find me' alias for golf channel

oh yeah i forgot about those! "mr doctor to you" is a jam

i dunno if there is any connection between traxx and the west coast stuff but he is one of my favorite DJs on earth and some of the stuff on his label "nation" would prolly be of interest itt, plus there seem to be connections between him and his collaborator in mutant beat dance with white car/gatekeeper/0PN and also gavin russom/no fun acid

Would definitely agree with the above.

― Tim F, Thursday, 3 November 2011 21:06 (Yesterday)

related to LG's post that Tim was cosigning (using Tim's to shorten the quoting), I don't think I 'get' Lamp's post upthread about this stuff being closer to his 'sensibilities.' it seems like indie is totally OK w/ 'regular house' -- not 'proper dance,' but like, edits & house music that might have an indie sensibility but is nonetheless no diff from house. is there really that large a crowd of Lamp-ish people who need to be reintroduced to this stuff? I went to a halloween party my friend threw that was all like art inst of chicago students -- like, the decorations were pretty intensively constructed & it was a v trendy v. 'in' crowd -- and they were playing straight up edits & dance music & etc. But it wasn't a 'proper dance' crow,d although i suppose there was a large crossover hipper side of gay clubbers there too, but nothing abt it struck me as being either particularly 'proper dance'-ish or needing this kind of distanced mediated dance.

so i guess what I'm asking is, are there really that many Lamp's out there?

I think the dichotomy some ppl are referencing (not to put words in Lamp's or anyone else's mouth) is almost more about venues and less about the music?

like, diy basement show vs trendy club

and other people are like, well, a lot of the stuff that ended up in big clubs started in some type of underground scene and it's not like 100% Silk invented some new blueprint of up-from-grassroots diy house music

i'm talking about a loft party full of (sorry ugh) 'hipsters' that are dancing to just, like, dance music, but aren't 'proper dance music fans,' like, the tracks they know are hercules & azari & basically the kind of middle ground hipster stuff that is also not very far from just being dance -- i guess i don't see a lot of room for this stuff, because almost anyone who would be in a 100% silk scene would just be into straight-up dance. or to put it another way, there already is a hipster house for loft parties & etc. ... why would we need hipster dance that takes a further step back from 'dance music proper'? (if i take 'dance music proper' to mean anything from superserious classic house heads to moodymann obsessives to minimal to cheesey clubbers to euro to pop-electro etc.)

haha weird

i was really trying to articulate this divide btw the way the label & its realtionship to the larger culture of dance music is being presented and talked abt by amanda/in interviews and the way ppl itt view that relationship: like, objectively i agree with the general thrust of tim's posts itt but at the same time subjectively i can appreciate the outsider rhetoric, even if it misconstrues what 'dance music culture' really consists of or how it functions.

a big part of all this is just the way the music is distributed and consumed ime, and much of that is independent of the way it sounds (although not completely, again look upthread at the mastering debate) which i can see annoying ppl or seeming tacky. i made total sense to me to see ned mention white rainbow bcuz 100% silk gets played in the same places and by the same ppl that wld jam frkwys or time wharp or w/e, this is more abt the cultural space the music occupies i guess?

i guess what i'm really asking is if this is a retreat from the increased engagement w/ 'proper dance' that started w/ rapture, moved into LCD, then hercules, finally azari?