teengirl fantasy, miracles club, mi ami, 100% silk and the rise of HIPSTER HOUSE: S/D

it's hard to sort out who's coming from where because of the crossover. That Two Dogs track is Ron Morelli and Jason Letkiewicz. Ron is yr classic old school punk kid turned house/techno guy who's been spinning house and techno since the pre-DFA days. I don't know Jason's background as well because I only met him recently but he's obviously well versed in the history of dance music, with his various projects/psuedonyms, Steve Summers, Rhythm Based Lovers, Innergaze, and he actually vacillates with this aesthetic. Sometimes it's more purist stuff, other times its more hazy/crossover hipster stuff. (again, hipster not in a pejorative sense). They're distinct stylistic choices and there is a difference. Innergaze, which he does with Aurora, cover star of a Minimal Wave comp, has a more lo-fi/minimal synth/experimental influence vibe.

Runaway/On the Prowl etc mentioned above is Marcos Cabral, who was working at Sonic Groove Records in NY w/ Brennan Greene and a serious techno head back before anyone in NY was even playing disco, let alone classic house, (except for actual house DJs, who existed in their own little ghetto separate from techno). It's him and Jacques Renault, and they're coming out of more recent nu-disco scenes, but they're hanging out with L.I.E.S. and going to the same parties.

So you've got people who've been making "techno" and "house" for years and years who are involved in this, and then you have people who are very new to it with varying levels of experience/understanding. In NY there's this whole bushwick yoga house scene, which ties into New Age revivalism as well, and aesthetically is maybe closer to the 100% Silk stuff. They too DJ the real stuff, but when making new stuff, these other influences will come to play.

But a lot of the west coast stuff we're talking about, the 100% silk and Ital stuff, I think has that early Italians Do It Better influence, where it's more lo-fi and artsy take on house music. House music neophytes (recent studies or not) coming out of more experimental noise contexts who don't have the baggage of purism even when they try to be slavishly derivative. But I think Ital just moved to Brooklyn anyway? So maybe he'll suddenly decide to go Diva house anyway. Maybe he's just visiting. In any case, the "difference" doesn't have to be "they don't know how to produce proper dance music" or "hipsters think they're cooler than proper dance music", it's just dance music with a few different influences then people are used to. Maybe that makes it OK for "hipsters" to finally like house music, like Justice made it OK for rockers to like club music or LCD or Glass Candy or whomever. I think there's a noticeable sonic difference from people tweaking dance music from the outside and from the inside. Take Metro Area and LCD Soundsystem. With the former you have artists coming up through "proper" house and techno, bringing in New Wave and Disco and Boogie influences, with the latter you have an artist coing up through punk/post-punk/rock. Both stretched the sound in their times in different ways.

And I think there's a conflict between admiring the mixed to cassette aesthetic, which is a big part of the sound, and an understanding of what sounds good on a system. I know certain hip local labels who started dabbling in music for clubs with similar acts recently and were initially frustrated by the realization that they have to mix and master for the dancefloor if they want it to sound good mixed in with other dance musics. This is a lesson every dance label in the history of dance music has learned, usually the hard way. It's not just about making it work at the Ministry of Sound, if 100% Silk hear their 12"s played enough at venues that aren't a house party rocking through somebody's stereo speakers, they'll get bummed. It's just harder to dance to stuff that sounds quiet and mushy. I'm assuming that's the complaint, I've never heard those 12"s.

Booming post.

dan otm!

i need the welcome roadsigns into brooklyn to note something about yoga and diva house now

http://vibesmanagement.com/

http://bodyactualized.blogspot.com/

Usually when I talk about wacky hybrid genres I'm exaggerating for effect/conversation. Not this time.

The closest involvement I had with all that was on the coldest day possible a few years ago when Market Hotel was still open Jan Woo let Tropical Jeremy and myself host Jonnny Sendar from Konk who was visiting after leaving NY for france a few years before and literally, maybe 12 people showed up. And somebody came, paid with a counterfeit 50 or 100 dollar bill, got change then left, so not only was the party empty, it got robbed. That story pretty much sums up my DJ career.

Oh, I thought you meant you were looking for the "signs", but you mean instead of "Brooklyn, FUGGEDABOUT IT", Marty Moskovitz's signs should promote this.

lol yes fuggedabout it but the signs welcome never heard about it

"Leaving Brooklyn, OY VEY"

Forget that guy. Queens should have signs like that, but they should be in an obscure Nepali dialect.

Again awesome post dan! I was hoping someone would articulate for me all the thoughts I've been having reading this thread the past few days, and have some working knowledge to share of what's happening on the ground.

Actually, I was wondering about 'learning things the hard way' re: 100% Silk. There's some interesting stuff on the label, but I agree that for them to balance out the hazy aesthetic with the demands of big systems is somehow crucial, especially if they expect these 12's to be DJed in a club (and this depends on how these records are taken up, and I'd say there's already some demand or engagement with those releases from that context). They seem to be splitting the difference at the moment between the context of records being documents or even art objects and records being tools for the dancefloor. They're running the label like a traditional dance label, but approaching production and aesthetics from an indie/noise/lo-fi perspective - so there's an interesting tension, but I'm not sure how it will play out in the long term. I'm sure that at the start this was a bit of a coy move from them, but the reception of these releases might ultimately mean they change their game.

I think this is also related to an issue that stems from the turn to analogue medium specificity as a strategy, where the route out from the DIY cassette/CDR scene is as much (if not more) about hi-fi, as well the other familiar path from abstraction/noise/experimental to pop.

Also interesting in this respect that 100% Silk show up not only as a feature in Mixmag, but also as a download on Beatport, and how they move across features/reviews from RA, LWE, or mnml ssgs to Pitchfork, Altered Zones or Gorilla Versus Bear.

Future Times is just put out a comp of relevant artists: Vibe 2 - worth checking out

also, new Miracles Club track on a Wurst comp coming out soon as well that is pretty nice. their place on that comp kind of exemplifies their crossover into the schools of artists who have been making this stuff for a while.

massive post dan, thanks for articulating the sentiments i was trying to say without pissing everyone off! i was trying to convey the relationship to the runaway/let's play house scene because all those people go to the same parties in brooklyn it seems so despite their varied backgrounds there are connections and some cross pollination.

i should say i mentioned blondes further up as part of this movement, if only because of the similarities in their performance styles and philosophies about production. but i was thinking more on this and their relationship to groups like Emeralds, Balam Acab, etc. (who have noise affiliations/legitimacy in those scenes) and i think that while their populist crossover appeal as sort-of stoner-trance goes in entirely different direction, i group them in this hipster-house movement because they have a similar effect on people of making it "OK for "hipsters" to finally like house music" as dan so aptly put it.

sorry, ready "this stuff" as house/disco

and where were all these noise trance hipster house kids at Oberlin when I was there? I started in 93 djing Jeff Mills records on WOBC and working the lights at the Sco while Morgan Geist played Dancemania records to an empty room and ended in 97 DJing a "rave" in South thrown by Paul B Davis and Cory Arcangel. There was a "techno" contigent in Zeke who were all RAVE TILL DAWN compilation CDs and glow sticks, but hey, it was the 90s.

dan otm all over the place.

ive got a weird vantage on all this stuff, cause it's never exactly been my #1 thing, but ive known all of these guys for ten years or so, from univ of maryland and DC/baltimore, so ive gotten to see a lot of the iterations and developments on their styles. ari and jason's MANHUNTER project started as real gnarly noise, and gradually morphed into a house-style project sometime around 2003. they were all about italo and unclassics and TRAX stuff, and got me into a bunch of those records. i think, when it comes down to it, jason's STEVE SUMMERS stuff is my real true favorite of it all. i love the acid sound, and it's got the most personality for me. innergaze and ital and beautiful swimmers are all good, too, and im excited for the prospect of 100% silk putting out more of jason's malvoeaux stuff. maybe these guys are hipsters -- theyve always had a SCENE, yknow? -- but theyve really been working it for a while, now, steadily building a base for like-interested musicians and fans, from WMUC to the old disco city nights to dahlak in dc to future times, etc etc etc.

yeah I feel like when the members of Black Eyes would go to Ari and Jason's DJ night at the Black Cat backstage it was pretty formative

When I came to the Black Cat with The Rapture to DJ when Black Eyes opened up, I walked through the back of the audience with someone in the band, pointed at the stage and said "hey, I don't see any black guys".

aw I miss the years of Black Eyes/black guys joeks

hadn't heard of teen girl fantasy in this thread, then announced today w/ kingdom

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/276692_241701265879593_2129686854_n.jpg

Were there years of those jokes? I only know the one. I think that was the biggest crowd I've ever played to, but there were no monitors and everyone just wanted to hear The Rapture anyway.

yeah i was going to say i would've been out to help out the minority count except i probably wouldn't go near the black cat for a rapture show

But that was the night all the DC indie-rock kids learned how to dance!

(sorry Ian Svenonius)

i don't think an apology is necessary i've been to spilt milk

^ niche joke but lols achieved

I had to look it up, found an article from 2003 talking about Gibby Miller inviting Ian and Calvin Johnston to Boston to DJ Start.

"...I was there" :)

and where were all these noise trance hipster house kids at Oberlin when I was there?

San Francisco iirc

they were actually in middle school at the time iirc

someone needs to teach the london kids to dance, the laurel halo/teengirl fantasy/maria minerva gigs were dry beyond belief. During teengirl fantasy i got tapped on the shoulder by the wettest spoilt dweeb ive ever seen and informed I was 'interrupting their circle' as me and my mate were the only people out of about 300 who were willing to have a bit of a jig

Great to hear from Dan Selzer on this, some of the only solid info in a thread filled with confused uninformed conjecture

Glad to hear London can be as dead as New York. I think a lot of Americans think of Europ + UK as one big never-ending dance party.

my conjecture is just as confused and uninformed, it's just a combination of stating it plainly and presenting a calm age- and experience-earned authority that makes it sound good at times.

Thats the one thing that really bugs me about this whole scene, I still prefer to go to traditional (abeit slightly more underground) house/techno parties as people do drugs and have fun even if they are slightly high st. Dalston Kids just stand around looking mopey outside The Alibi.

someone needs to teach the london kids to dance, the laurel halo/teengirl fantasy/maria minerva gigs were dry beyond belief. During teengirl fantasy i got tapped on the shoulder by the wettest spoilt dweeb ive ever seen and informed I was 'interrupting their circle' as me and my mate were the only people out of about 300 who were willing to have a bit of a jig

Oh noes. This would be the thing that would really put me off as well. They should book clubs for the 'hipster house' live performances alongside DJs outside that circuit, avoid the indie ghettos.

saying that some mates of mine are doing a 100% silk showcase up north soon, they always throw a good party

http://www.residentadvisor.net/event.aspx?296807

a thread filled with confused uninformed conjecture

this is sorta silly, a lot of us have been saying more or less what dan said but with less nyc-scene specific knowledge. the majority of posters here have had irl interactions with the artists being discussed and we're exploring how they fit into a larger context of dance/noise music as opposed to 'stating it plainly'

dan's contributions are hugely welcome tho don't get me wrong

"SORRY BOUCHA CIRCLE UNBRO"

I can drop west coast knowledge and names too. Alison Childs and Kat from Donuts hooked me up with Ryan Paulsen for a gig in SF where I met Robot Hustle and re-met Safety Scissors, whom I had DJ'd with in NY years before opening up for Martin from A Certain Ratio at the height of electro-clash. ILX's very own Jaxon was there as well. That's the night I told him he should start DJ'ing, and he hasn't looked back since.

I went to Portland last year or so for a wedding and met up with Matthew Quiet and Genevieve D. at the Holocene for a Soft Metals/Joey Casio show. I met Ian from Soft Metals but he probably doesn't remember/know who I am. I think I missed Optimo in Portland by a week.

innergaze more like innercircle

funny. apart from kat and robot hustle i know all those west coast folks too. i'm pretty sure ian does know who you are.

http://blissout.blogspot.com/2011/10/house-arrested-odd-upshot-of-emergence.html

I saw Laurel Halo in Brooklyn (at The Bunker) a few months back and it was the same story... Nobody moving, nobody dancing. Granted, I didn't think her set was very good or inspiring at all, but I also think the crowd wasn't looking for an excuse to get down. It did make me wonder: what exactly did these people hope to get out of this sort of performance? And what was Laurel Halo hoping to achieve or communicate? She didn't seem like she was trying to really pump up the crowd (she never sang or even spoke into the mic), and had that indie detachedness that we're all so familiar with. Why engage with this sort of music, either as performer or observer, if you're content to just sit back awkwardly and observe and pontificate as if it were just another set of drifty synth whizzjizz?

ha i don't doubt your ability to drop west coast knowledge either, but i do doubt the need to do so in the first place lol (linger and quiet are prob my fave djs in portland btw! and all those sf people put on great nights as well)

i met frankie knuckles once

My guess about something like Laurel Halo at the Bunker...(and I don't know her music that well and have to admit I haven't been to Bunker since I was the guest DJ with Porkchop and it was Subtonic and nobody was there, however I did go to a dinner party at Bryan's house with Rick Brown and Sue Garner from Run On and Malcolm Mooney*. How's that for name-dropping?!) but you have the kind of music that certain people really like to dance to...some serious techno, but it's the kind of thing that people go to late late at night...what time was she on? I image they put on a live performance and its on the earlier side and maybe the music isn't exactly bunker style techno and maybe people don't know what to do. One of the worst things about any live performance of dance music is the initial basic age old question, am I supposed to dance to this or am I supposed to watch it? I think a live performance has to have a certain kind of energy where it's like holy shit you're gonna dance to this! Or they should be hidden away like a DJ and half the people won't even know it's live.

That's my last name-drop of the thread. But it's a good one.

one time i posted on a thread with one of the dudes from optimo

actually i didnt meet frankie knuckles, but i saw him

one time i posted on a thread with one of the dudes from optimo and dan selzer

fixed that for you.

who tf is dan seltzer