teengirl fantasy, miracles club, mi ami, 100% silk and the rise of HIPSTER HOUSE: S/D

raaaad, i am stoked. 12 hour drive to awesome dance party, i just booked a cheap motel close by.

thanks for the info psychgawsple. j4red was way nice when i met him, lots of great stuff in his store too. ^_^

obv there ARE very disgusting club scenes but they idk if they anything to do with bobbins-y material, more a perception of a lot of modern house music as being in the "beat the beat up"-type pauly d style by a certain subsection of musicians

obv there ARE very disgusting club scenes

Really? If we're talking about clubs where people go to get totally wasted and beat each other up and sexually harrass people then, well, sure, but I don't think any of those constitute a "club scene" in any meaningful musical sense.

IMO most groups of people who like music are pretty okay when you actually hang with them.

dunno if it is really up for debate that the US has a p. complicated and sometimes antagonistic relationship with dance music in general, both sonically and socially

us vs. europe generalizing isn't really valid but i mean there does kind of seem to be an us vs. them mentality about some of this stuff that i think those generalizations are kinda glancing at

personally kinda think "going to clubs is! fun!" is kind of an oversimplification and not always true especially w/r/t clubbing outside of europe or NYC/LA/SF

agreed

it's obviously subjective! but what tim mentions is p much what i am referring to: sexist, macho, unfortunate places to find yourself hanging out. i wish i had his optimism and faith in all music fans lol

personally kinda think "going to clubs is! fun!" is kind of an oversimplification and not always true especially w/r/t clubbing outside of europe or NYC/LA/SF

probably sydney too right?

As a gay dude who very much looks it I think I'm pretty conscious of what I would consider to be negative macho energy. I rarely if ever come across it in the context of clubs where people actually know or care who is playing. In any dance genre.

IDK maybe Australia is just a nicer place for clubbing, but then I know which venues I'd go to if I wanted to get glassed or gangbashed and (a) they're fairly easily avoided, and (b) no-one who goes is there for the music as far as I can tell.

But maybe the USA is actually super awful?

(Melbourne BTW)

bored, let's get back to music recommendations

really into the bobby browser track on the MIXMAG 100% silk mix, sounds like girl from Group Rhoda on the vocals too

and the sir stephen track, dunno where that dude is from though, his discogs is sparse and a little confusing, anyone know?

sir stephen 'move that body' is like my fave 100% silk track i think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGeKLsO6RRY

this is prolly my fave 100% silk

xps they are less easily avoided in the us i think, but i have never been to australia (woops, melbourne i guess ha) so i have no frame of reference . my point is that it's more about stigma than anything, and there are so many people in places like sf and portland that have wild wild preconceptions about clubs that play 4x4. it sucks but it's true

and yea was playing that sir stephen ep earlier today, some real jams

do u guys ever find listening to this stuff that you wish u were listening to 'the actual thing' & by that i mean something that is less concerned w/ the outer-signifiers of 'a certain era' & more concerned w/ affecting the body/brain as a dancer. i do get where rev is coming from to the extent that a lot of this stuff seems to have a goal of replication of a ~vibe~ than focusing on getting people on the floor

like, obv there's nothing 'wrong' w/ that preference but i think its coming from an honest place to say, as a critique, i wish this stuff was aiming for a little more immediacy, a little more contemporary relevance. i mean i dont like justice at all but they were very much of their time in a way this stuff isnt so much

do u guys ever find listening to this stuff that you wish u were listening to 'the actual thing' & by that i mean something that is less concerned w/ the outer-signifiers of 'a certain era' & more concerned w/ affecting the body/brain as a dancer. i do get where rev is coming from to the extent that a lot of this stuff seems to have a goal of replication of a ~vibe~ than focusing on getting people on the floor

― The boyboy young jess (D-40), Wednesday, October 12, 2011 5:50 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i realize this sounds like the "NOT REAL HOUSE MUSIC" thing but im actually talking about the concrete goals of the artists themselves -- that a functionality would make this stuff a lot more interesting & give it more dimension as music

a rational dismissal! thank god

idk i think if you go see this stuff live you get a much different vibe. also, like you mentioned, hot chixx. almost a similar crowd to a hip soul night but with sillier shirts and beats (yes these songs have bass). also- as mentioned, the dj sets are chock full of classic body-centric house music

I would think this stuff would work pretty well live, esp. if the performances are more erm performative.

i dunno if creating/replicating a vibe or putting energy into more abstract mental stimuli definitively does not get people on the floor

some of the best dance party experiences with the best crowd responses i have had in the small midwestern city where i live have featured inferior systems and live electronic acts, music and presentation definitively concerned with other things besides affecting the body/brain as a dancer

like maybe h******s need the added intellectual distance or whatever to really get into it and start feeling it, maybe the universality and visceral physical appeal of highly calibrated dancefloor WMDs actually alienates some people and now here are their "house is a feeling but also a style of music that was popular in these cities during the years of 19XX-19XX" records

maybe not i dunno

idib had the same problems deej is referring to tho, right? not sure those nights could really be classified as sweaty all night dance parties but people still danced, and it didn't seem to matter that the music was aiming to put you in some type of sexy coma

i also think that these artists are slowly becoming more aware of how the music works on a dance floor and i feel like they will only become more entrenched in those dynamics the more this stuff gains traction

hence idib evolving into a more dancefloor-oriented label putting out 12"s by disgusting disgusting europeans

(joeks)

i think this might be why miracles club uses live dancers (albeit live dancers that are also being used for retro-fetishism purposes)

See the thing is I actually don't think that this music would or should or can only appeal to people who are suspicious of most house music, so it surprises me that some boosters in this thread keep defending the music in those terms.

I think it's entirely possible to both like "the real thing" and to like slightly arch distanced etc. recreations of that thing. People who can only like one or the other are missing out a bit IMO.

Dance music is filled with people who are borrowing elements from scenes that are temporally and geographically inaccessible to them, and the push-pull of recreation/distortion is a major productive motor. A lot of the classicist-yet-woozy qualities I hear in 100% Silk put me in mind of pre-Daft Punk french house.

I saw Glass Candy play in a drafty hall at a rock festival, objectively really awful environment to hear real or hipster-fake dance music, but I had a marvelous time.

I think a lot of what you're saying deej elides with stuff like hatchback windsurf james ferraro etc - there's for sure an Outlining The Difference piece to be written but it's probably already in the Simon Reynolds book - the "thickening" of the material by contextual reference results/can result? in a different listening experience is what I think the deal is. but "immediacy" is a pretty rock 'n' roll stated goal, I think with some of this stuff the added dimension of history changes the effect of listening. like somebody could do the most spoton Paradise Garage tribute sound but if it was somebody who didn't actually experience paradise garage, then it's necessarily a different sound. which is interesting to some people, occasionally there's movements like this in metal too, most bands trying that look can't keep it real or interesting for longer than an album tho darkthrone's throwback stuff is incredible imo

i mean i think what we all like is music that seems to impact at multiple levels (maybe i'm just speaking for myself here) -- i like stuff that refers to interesting parts of musical history, i like stuff that feels cutting-edge, that attracts diverse crowds, particularly in terms of gender, that aims to grab my attention as a dancer, etc. etc.

i mean the criticisms of 'real house music' nights in chicago are that they can be boring & trad & unconcerned w/ finding new & novel (& cool) influences. And then the inverse is the criticisms of this stuff, that it's so concerned with being cool & affecting the 'right' influences that it loses touch w/ the kinds of functionality that make 'the real thing' so attractive to diverse groups of people. when it comes down to it i like both of these things working in concert. I mean, its what works about Harvey or Classixx or Tensnake or whoever else.

at the end of the day, though, i like music that has an immediacy -- meaning, music that appeals to ppl who like cool signifiers but that can immediately appeal to people who might not think on those terms ... that you could invite someone who isnt in 'our conversation' about old house records & they'll still enjoy themselves. I guess the gatekeeper aspect of it JUST relying on hip references & chillwave justifications for its 'importance' is extremely off-putting to me.

today is the same as yesterday basically

like, the underground/niche/'scene' element is, in my favorite music, a launching pad rather than a self-sustaining thing, nb this may be from my hip-hop background where so many of my fav artists are trying to 'make it' & cross over and appeal to more people

good post aero, reflecting on it

that you could invite someone who isnt in 'our conversation' about old house records & they'll still enjoy themselves

i have found this to be true (if you can convince people to actually come!)

i think i posted about this before on ilx but i invited some ladyfriends to come see rupture w/ me once & they were supremely 'ehhhh' abt it -- and they're not really 'top 40 only' types, pretty open minded (i recognize rupture is an entirely difft thing this is just an example) but he was only connecting, ime, with people who'd already 'bought' what he's selling

I don't think any of the hipster house I have heard is particularly anti-outsiders in sound. It's more the conversation that makes it seem so.

xp i have heard this about rupture too actually

i mean, clearly going to see the deeep or w/e is going to have a lot less of an immediate impact than something like teengirl fantasy or miracles club. there are lots of differing strands that seem to be intersecting here and a lot of the generalizations itt are totally dependent on the artist

like somebody could do the most spoton Paradise Garage tribute sound but if it was somebody who didn't actually experience paradise garage, then it's necessarily a different sound

sometimes i think its less abt 'access' to a specific xp or context or sound (since access is sort of a degraded concept) but abt our relationship with a present that does little to distance or distinguish itself from the past, like this music isnt really 'the way it is' because its distanced or ironic or suspicious but because thats what 'xp' is like now. the past is now more a foreign country than the present or s.thing

otm Lamp

See the thing is I actually don't think that this music would or should or can only appeal to people who are suspicious of most house music, so it surprises me that some boosters in this thread keep defending the music in those terms.

I think it's entirely possible to both like "the real thing" and to like slightly arch distanced etc. recreations of that thing. People who can only like one or the other are missing out a bit IMO.

i dont think anyone here said that these scenes would, should or have to be mutually exclusive, but rather that this one, for whatever reason, seems to be accessible to people who otherwise might associate all dance music with the "disgusting" club vibe i mentioned before and have been turned off as a result. (not trying to make a normative statement here, just a positive one)

w/r/t this stuff being anti-outsider

i mean that mixmag interview and the writeups on the 100% silk blog seem like they're meant specifically for people who have never heard a house record before, super flowery exaggerated language, no namedrops or insidery references to equipment or hardware or specific musical or geographic legacies the music maybe be interacting with

if anything it is designed specifically for outsiders, even to the point where the DJ sets can function as cliff's notes guides to the most obvious highlights of the genre the DJ's productions are operating in

sometimes i think its less abt 'access' to a specific xp or context or sound (since access is sort of a degraded concept) but abt our relationship with a present that does little to distance or distinguish itself from the past, like this music isnt really 'the way it is' because its distanced or ironic or suspicious but because thats what 'xp' is like now. the past is now more a foreign country than the present or s.thing

― koyannisquatsi hop (Lamp), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 23:34 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I think this is a good way of putting it but (to the extent this needs to be said at all) I also think it's not a general rule - i.e. this is not expressive of the modern human condition but rather one common experience of it.

Scenes have varying qualities of newness/retroism and then overlaid on top of that have various qualities of self-consciousness about where they sit.

Certainly none of these qualities in 100% Silk et. al. are any different in substance to, say balearic of disco edits or w/e - it's a very similar principle I think.

i mean that mixmag interview and the writeups on the 100% silk blog seem like they're meant specifically for people who have never heard a house record before, super flowery exaggerated language, no namedrops or insidery references to equipment or hardware or specific musical or geographic legacies the music maybe be interacting with

I don't disagree with this but at the same time insiderness/outsiderness can operate along a lot of different vectors.

Like, DJ Rupture can be music that appeals to outsiders vis a vis actual kuduro enthusiasts, but then seem insidery vis a vis music that appeals to people who aren't already sold on the idea of one planet under a groove pan-globalism.

David Guetta also wants to appeal to people who have never heard house but that doesn't mean any of us would conflate Guetta and 100% Silk as partners in ecumenical openness.

that sir stephens youtube sounds like laura jones - "love in me"

ok wau at some of the questions in that mixmag interview...

Do you kick it old skool intentionally?

Where do you find the producers that you put out? Each release seems to be from an underground artist capable of creating pure dance floor gold!

some of the answers are p funny too i guess

I just love making people dance, and if I make them think as well, then that's even better.

she just wants to make people dance guys

which is totally obvious on the 100% silk tour featuring sex worker, dylan ettinger, maria minerva and la vampires

i mean that mixmag interview and the writeups on the 100% silk blog seem like they're meant specifically for people who have never heard a house record before, super flowery exaggerated language, no namedrops or insidery references to equipment or hardware or specific musical or geographic legacies the music maybe be interacting with

ugh, this sounds terrible, but i'm just gonna throw it out there. i'm drunk and will deal w/my sexism tomorrow morn, but this was said by a girl. i know full well girls can get into the nerdy collectorism and name dropping, but that article wasn't that.

I was listening to the Future Times mix for Resident Advisor (which I love love love) again today and was thinking that FT is definitely a case where any archness does not get in the way of the music's functional immediacy whatsoever.

not to stir up the pot more, but I really don't think Future Times is coming from the same place as 100% Silk, despite various connections real or imagined. And the differences may be superficial ones regarding scene and history and fashion and degrees of HIPSTERISM but they're there and they partially dictate the differences.

And for what it's worth, I have no problem bringing the phrase "hipster" into this thread, or calling the genre "Hipster House" (hey, I kinda helped coin Beardo Disco, right Vahid?) because to me Hipster has positive as well as negative connotations...and it's beyond value judgements anyway. I've managed to avoid the several recent threads debating "hipster" (despite being invited to take part) but I felt it worth mentioning here.

Agree re "hipster".

"I've managed to avoid the several recent threads debating "hipster" (despite being invited to take part)"

if i do nothing else with my life i will make sure that these words are carved onto dan's tombstone

dan's probably right re: future times too. that stuff is definitely coming from a different, if overlapping place- which is why i was sorta hesitant to throw them in here, but as you mentioned there are some definite connections.

i unabashedly love FT and have slightly more reserved emotions for the rest of the stuff in this thread, regardless of how fun it is to talk about or go see in a live setting. too bad my future times thread never took off

a lot of the stuff on l.i.e.s. tho is more gritty, definitely more ingrained into crate digging history, they put out a legowelt record, etc... there are tons of differences but if you played this and told me it was on 100% silk i wouldn't think twice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ049btJRuM