teengirl fantasy, miracles club, mi ami, 100% silk and the rise of HIPSTER HOUSE: S/D

i'm pretty unimpressed with any of the criticisms vouched in this thread by the UK/European crowd. the whole, "i don't like how it sounds critique" is just an echo of the tired berlin school dance music dogma that everyone said about justice six years ago. if you like minimal house, then don't come here to hate on the production techniques because the artists are trying to achieve very different things. even comparisons to classic 90s house (which many of us involved in the movement are digging for and playing out) are unfair because the landscape of dance music was very different when producers were making that music than it is today.

does that make u feel better?

no one thinks they are impressively underground. if anything this music is meant to target audiences who don't usually listen to dance music to get into it.

does that make u feel better?

Not really, because I still don't give a fuck about Berlin or minimal house. But some low end in this music would be nice.

The part about 90s house is fair tho, even if I disagree.

no one thinks they are impressively underground.

Okay then, your self-congratulatory post about having transcended caring about what dance music actually sounds like owing to your history as a veteran of all the great US underground dance scenes had me confused there for a second. Glad we cleared that up.

dont be sad, tim f

the whole, "i don't like how it sounds critique" is just an echo of the tired berlin school dance music dogma that everyone said about justice six years ago. if you like minimal house, then don't come here to hate on the production techniques because the artists are trying to achieve very different things.

does this suggest that justice is great and/or that only minimal people hated on justice

received wider acceptance by europeans

i love this line. it's true. we europeans are a different breed who only listen to records on liebe*detail.

this is a lot more historically-oriented & less populist than justice was. justice was p much just "what if daft punk was more, like, rock"

but yeah i didnt like them either

fwiw im gonna go to this show when they come to chicago bcuz i find scenes like this attract hot chixx & im interested to see what the dance scene is like

'disgusting club culture'

soooo i'm in pdx this weekend. anywhere i can pick up some of these 12"s? how about cl1nton street mus1c? that guy played me a purple & green track last year...

how are miracles club djing? i wanna check em out on thursday maybe, depends on how late we get in there. any one have any other recommendations for like record stores or something, i know this aint a portland thread but i hope it makes sense that im asking here.

― runaway (Matt P), Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:00 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

definitely go to clinton street, jared rules (the guy with the silly sweater with sunglasses on it in the church song vid), and i'm not sure about where to pick up a lot of these 12"s but i would imagine your typical run of the mill indie store would carry this type of thing- maybe green noise? they're sorta the equivalent to aquarius in sf, or volcanic tongue etc but i'm not sure if they f/w house. tbh i've found more stuff at the bay area amoebas from this sphere than anywhere, jared stocks amazing older stuff but i feel like he'd be wasting money if he bought more than a few copies of newer dance releases (lol portland). there are a few stores i still need to check out but i've found that for the most part pdx does not like to stock newer 4x4 stuff in any large quantity.

and you should definitely see miracles club dj (i'm hoping to swing by too), raf uses a laptop but plays a lot of rad nu groove / strictly rhythm / '90s house tunes mixed in with newer piano house revival stuff (no 100% silk soundz from what i remember. when he spun on sunday i sware he played at least 5 mk songs lol). also their friends that dj these nights are very very skilled vinyl guys who spin a lot of disco-not-disco classics, detroit classics, you know. the good shit. i think jared has a low key cosmic / synth wave night down the street from valentine's at backspace or someplace on thursdays too, but i need to look into it.

was really impressed with miracles club dj set on fri, was working and wouldn't have been there otherwise, but it seems like they were all on their game. super positive

i feel responsible for bringing up the american/euro divide thing, so i apologize for opening up that whole pipecockian wormhole. i liked this thread a lot more before people came in here with these v subjective "THIS SUXX IT DOESN'T BANG LISTEN TO THE REAL STUFF" type comments but what're you gonna do.

i'm more interested in looking at how this whole thing developed, and why. perhaps this does expose a lot of the (justified or not) reasons that certain noise dudes hate on 'disgusting club culture' but that doesn't mean you have to agree! i sure as hell don't!

i liked this thread a lot more before people came in here with these v subjective "THIS SUXX IT DOESN'T BANG LISTEN TO THE REAL STUFF" type comments but what're you gonna do.

Yeah that stuff is BS as well. Basically any time someone ITT thread says "I like this, those disgusting people like that", I switch allegiances.

raaaad, i am stoked. 12 hour drive to awesome dance party, i just booked a cheap motel close by.

thanks for the info psychgawsple. j4red was way nice when i met him, lots of great stuff in his store too. ^_^

obv there ARE very disgusting club scenes but they idk if they anything to do with bobbins-y material, more a perception of a lot of modern house music as being in the "beat the beat up"-type pauly d style by a certain subsection of musicians

obv there ARE very disgusting club scenes

Really? If we're talking about clubs where people go to get totally wasted and beat each other up and sexually harrass people then, well, sure, but I don't think any of those constitute a "club scene" in any meaningful musical sense.

IMO most groups of people who like music are pretty okay when you actually hang with them.

dunno if it is really up for debate that the US has a p. complicated and sometimes antagonistic relationship with dance music in general, both sonically and socially

us vs. europe generalizing isn't really valid but i mean there does kind of seem to be an us vs. them mentality about some of this stuff that i think those generalizations are kinda glancing at

personally kinda think "going to clubs is! fun!" is kind of an oversimplification and not always true especially w/r/t clubbing outside of europe or NYC/LA/SF

agreed

it's obviously subjective! but what tim mentions is p much what i am referring to: sexist, macho, unfortunate places to find yourself hanging out. i wish i had his optimism and faith in all music fans lol

personally kinda think "going to clubs is! fun!" is kind of an oversimplification and not always true especially w/r/t clubbing outside of europe or NYC/LA/SF

probably sydney too right?

As a gay dude who very much looks it I think I'm pretty conscious of what I would consider to be negative macho energy. I rarely if ever come across it in the context of clubs where people actually know or care who is playing. In any dance genre.

IDK maybe Australia is just a nicer place for clubbing, but then I know which venues I'd go to if I wanted to get glassed or gangbashed and (a) they're fairly easily avoided, and (b) no-one who goes is there for the music as far as I can tell.

But maybe the USA is actually super awful?

(Melbourne BTW)

bored, let's get back to music recommendations

really into the bobby browser track on the MIXMAG 100% silk mix, sounds like girl from Group Rhoda on the vocals too

and the sir stephen track, dunno where that dude is from though, his discogs is sparse and a little confusing, anyone know?

sir stephen 'move that body' is like my fave 100% silk track i think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGeKLsO6RRY

this is prolly my fave 100% silk

xps they are less easily avoided in the us i think, but i have never been to australia (woops, melbourne i guess ha) so i have no frame of reference . my point is that it's more about stigma than anything, and there are so many people in places like sf and portland that have wild wild preconceptions about clubs that play 4x4. it sucks but it's true

and yea was playing that sir stephen ep earlier today, some real jams

do u guys ever find listening to this stuff that you wish u were listening to 'the actual thing' & by that i mean something that is less concerned w/ the outer-signifiers of 'a certain era' & more concerned w/ affecting the body/brain as a dancer. i do get where rev is coming from to the extent that a lot of this stuff seems to have a goal of replication of a ~vibe~ than focusing on getting people on the floor

like, obv there's nothing 'wrong' w/ that preference but i think its coming from an honest place to say, as a critique, i wish this stuff was aiming for a little more immediacy, a little more contemporary relevance. i mean i dont like justice at all but they were very much of their time in a way this stuff isnt so much

do u guys ever find listening to this stuff that you wish u were listening to 'the actual thing' & by that i mean something that is less concerned w/ the outer-signifiers of 'a certain era' & more concerned w/ affecting the body/brain as a dancer. i do get where rev is coming from to the extent that a lot of this stuff seems to have a goal of replication of a ~vibe~ than focusing on getting people on the floor

― The boyboy young jess (D-40), Wednesday, October 12, 2011 5:50 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i realize this sounds like the "NOT REAL HOUSE MUSIC" thing but im actually talking about the concrete goals of the artists themselves -- that a functionality would make this stuff a lot more interesting & give it more dimension as music

a rational dismissal! thank god

idk i think if you go see this stuff live you get a much different vibe. also, like you mentioned, hot chixx. almost a similar crowd to a hip soul night but with sillier shirts and beats (yes these songs have bass). also- as mentioned, the dj sets are chock full of classic body-centric house music

I would think this stuff would work pretty well live, esp. if the performances are more erm performative.

i dunno if creating/replicating a vibe or putting energy into more abstract mental stimuli definitively does not get people on the floor

some of the best dance party experiences with the best crowd responses i have had in the small midwestern city where i live have featured inferior systems and live electronic acts, music and presentation definitively concerned with other things besides affecting the body/brain as a dancer

like maybe h******s need the added intellectual distance or whatever to really get into it and start feeling it, maybe the universality and visceral physical appeal of highly calibrated dancefloor WMDs actually alienates some people and now here are their "house is a feeling but also a style of music that was popular in these cities during the years of 19XX-19XX" records

maybe not i dunno

idib had the same problems deej is referring to tho, right? not sure those nights could really be classified as sweaty all night dance parties but people still danced, and it didn't seem to matter that the music was aiming to put you in some type of sexy coma

i also think that these artists are slowly becoming more aware of how the music works on a dance floor and i feel like they will only become more entrenched in those dynamics the more this stuff gains traction

hence idib evolving into a more dancefloor-oriented label putting out 12"s by disgusting disgusting europeans

(joeks)

i think this might be why miracles club uses live dancers (albeit live dancers that are also being used for retro-fetishism purposes)

See the thing is I actually don't think that this music would or should or can only appeal to people who are suspicious of most house music, so it surprises me that some boosters in this thread keep defending the music in those terms.

I think it's entirely possible to both like "the real thing" and to like slightly arch distanced etc. recreations of that thing. People who can only like one or the other are missing out a bit IMO.

Dance music is filled with people who are borrowing elements from scenes that are temporally and geographically inaccessible to them, and the push-pull of recreation/distortion is a major productive motor. A lot of the classicist-yet-woozy qualities I hear in 100% Silk put me in mind of pre-Daft Punk french house.

I saw Glass Candy play in a drafty hall at a rock festival, objectively really awful environment to hear real or hipster-fake dance music, but I had a marvelous time.

I think a lot of what you're saying deej elides with stuff like hatchback windsurf james ferraro etc - there's for sure an Outlining The Difference piece to be written but it's probably already in the Simon Reynolds book - the "thickening" of the material by contextual reference results/can result? in a different listening experience is what I think the deal is. but "immediacy" is a pretty rock 'n' roll stated goal, I think with some of this stuff the added dimension of history changes the effect of listening. like somebody could do the most spoton Paradise Garage tribute sound but if it was somebody who didn't actually experience paradise garage, then it's necessarily a different sound. which is interesting to some people, occasionally there's movements like this in metal too, most bands trying that look can't keep it real or interesting for longer than an album tho darkthrone's throwback stuff is incredible imo

i mean i think what we all like is music that seems to impact at multiple levels (maybe i'm just speaking for myself here) -- i like stuff that refers to interesting parts of musical history, i like stuff that feels cutting-edge, that attracts diverse crowds, particularly in terms of gender, that aims to grab my attention as a dancer, etc. etc.

i mean the criticisms of 'real house music' nights in chicago are that they can be boring & trad & unconcerned w/ finding new & novel (& cool) influences. And then the inverse is the criticisms of this stuff, that it's so concerned with being cool & affecting the 'right' influences that it loses touch w/ the kinds of functionality that make 'the real thing' so attractive to diverse groups of people. when it comes down to it i like both of these things working in concert. I mean, its what works about Harvey or Classixx or Tensnake or whoever else.

at the end of the day, though, i like music that has an immediacy -- meaning, music that appeals to ppl who like cool signifiers but that can immediately appeal to people who might not think on those terms ... that you could invite someone who isnt in 'our conversation' about old house records & they'll still enjoy themselves. I guess the gatekeeper aspect of it JUST relying on hip references & chillwave justifications for its 'importance' is extremely off-putting to me.

today is the same as yesterday basically

like, the underground/niche/'scene' element is, in my favorite music, a launching pad rather than a self-sustaining thing, nb this may be from my hip-hop background where so many of my fav artists are trying to 'make it' & cross over and appeal to more people

good post aero, reflecting on it

that you could invite someone who isnt in 'our conversation' about old house records & they'll still enjoy themselves

i have found this to be true (if you can convince people to actually come!)

i think i posted about this before on ilx but i invited some ladyfriends to come see rupture w/ me once & they were supremely 'ehhhh' abt it -- and they're not really 'top 40 only' types, pretty open minded (i recognize rupture is an entirely difft thing this is just an example) but he was only connecting, ime, with people who'd already 'bought' what he's selling

I don't think any of the hipster house I have heard is particularly anti-outsiders in sound. It's more the conversation that makes it seem so.

xp i have heard this about rupture too actually

i mean, clearly going to see the deeep or w/e is going to have a lot less of an immediate impact than something like teengirl fantasy or miracles club. there are lots of differing strands that seem to be intersecting here and a lot of the generalizations itt are totally dependent on the artist