Madonna: Classic Or Dud

1. I've always liked Terry Wogan - but god, he was lame when he interviewed Madonna.

2. Her accent - the cod-Brit one she adopted from late 80s on (?): dud.

3. What a load of piffle re. 'We all love her cos she lives in England now'. But that's probably been covered above.

4. The music seemed to get better over the years. I was so struck when 'Who's That Girl?' came on. I hadn't heard it in AGES, had always known I liked it, and it still sounded good. Some (to my ears) didn't: don't care for 'Vogue' much.

4. But slightly larger (though still terribly 'subjective') point: I was surprised at how bad the early stuff seemed. 'Holiday', 'Lucky Star', 'Like A Virgin': yes, they still have the predictable 80s nostalgia value. BUT even as I kind of enjoy that, I seem to hear a naffness, a tackiness in them. In fact one virtue of this prog was that I seemed to see the early stuff as though for the first time, as a kid. It reminded me of seeing early Madonna not as a loveable 80- retro icon of our childhood, but as The Big New Pop Star c. 1984. How did she seem, that way? Arrogant - self-satisfied - unsubtle - overrated - sinister - smug. 'Like A Virgin' felt crass and brazen. I'd never heard it sound so BAD in 15 years or more.

So in a way, one thing it made me feel was a resemblance (from my POV) between early Madonna and today's chart sensations (the people that Tom E likes). It made me feel that she had been just as bad as them. I hadn't felt that for a long time.

That said, her music's actually pretty damn good - "Cherish", "Open Your Heart", probably the entirety of _True Blue_. (Not that this is news to anyone but myself.) She's a crap actress, though, and a crapper singer, especially after her _Evita_ lessons - who the hell taught her how to hold notes? And WHY did they teach her that? And why is she posing with a guitar now like it's a revelation? "Oh, damn, I can play a C chord! This'll impress people!" And I like her better as a brunette. But she survived posing nude with Vanilla Ice, which is a skill I can only hope to emulate.

(And has anyone even mentioned _Ray of Light_ in terms of a quality slice of Ciccone "youth"? Or is there an anti-William Orbit contingent on this list that'll shit on such notions?)

But it's a lose-lose situation, this sort of talk. You praise her like you should, you're just towing the line with the rest of the acolytes. You disapprove, you're a wack playa hata. Just accept her as true American royalty and step away from the doors.

(But, lord, hearing her butcher "Like A Virgin" on that VH1 Girlie Show special was wretched. She turned it into a German cabaret number. A SLOW cabaret number. Lugubrious and woefully self- indulgent, Kubrick-style. "You're so fine, unt you're mine!")

'Ah but thats just the point, she's a weathervane, a survivor and a late 20th century pop icon'. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Klassic

(to be precise, he is not strictly speaking the worst - I find it hard to visualise anyone who could be a worse writer than Imran Ahmed of the NME - but that wouldn't quite have the same universal appeal when it comes to chat-ups)

Only someone who doesn't appreciate pop culture could say Madonna's a dud.

From what I heard Portillo was trying to persuade her to be the star turn at the next Tory election rally. Still she's moved back to LA now, so the sight of her standing next to Bob Monkhouse, Jim Davidson and Ben Elton (prediction) will not come to pass.

You're probably right at that. What the fuck happened to him anyway?

She is also a very crafty song-writer. What is so amazing is how she plays with song structure. Guys if you have ever written songs, you know it takes a musical-genius to write that many styles of song-writing. It is fucking hard. I don't know how she does it but it is her. Yea I know she collaborates but from what I have read, she is always the primary lyricists. She has written very complex songs. Her use of different song structures is nothing short of brilliance. And to make them all hits like she does is pretty astounding.

I am not interested in the petty fighting between fans of different singers that goes on. I am just giving my opinion as a musician. Madonna is the real deal. Even other bands I talk with that aren't into her music give her props for being the real deal. In our circles, we respect Madonna even if we aren't into her music. She is a classic all the way and will go down as one of the top 10 greatest female singer/song-writers of all time. She is a musical genius.

Didn't realize people actually used such terminology.

Oh, and classic or dud, she represents all the worst of postmodern media saturation, celebrity for celebrity's sake, nihilistic materialism, etc. I root for her stalkers.

I didn't listen to her seriously until that point as well. She's great.

So maybe I can't be objective.

A living legend.

And the video of Hollywood is just stunning. As are the remixes.

remixes sound good tho

Also, she should start releasing the great tracks from American Life, and there are definitely quite a few. I'd go for Nothing Fails and Mother and Father.... both classic Madonna.

Why in the heck did they put "Borderline" as the third song on Immaculate Collection? I don't get that. Those other songs ("Lucky Star", "holiday") weren't released as singles earlier, were they? I don't think so. I swear "Borderline" was the first video I ever saw. That's kind of annoying sequencing. I think "Borderline" is just so fantastic - the type of song that should really kick off a greatest hits collection.

Anyway, let's talk some more about Madge. We haven't had much opportunity to do so; the last album flopped, god bless her, but what can you do? It happens. She is still awesome in my mind.

I finally saw Swept Away on HBO or something over X-mas but whatever, it wasn't too bad. I loved the original, and Madonna's didin't seem to bad. Decent flick.

Anyway ... Madonna!!!

Madonna would benefit from a Lennon-like 5 year voluntary break from the public eye/music world...

Because:
1) the album is chronological
2) it could not start more perfectly
3) the song's classic-ness is "borderline" at best

I can't believe it! This is the song from Live Aid you can't get on the commercially available DVD! And I found it by accident when I played Human League's Human video. God what luck. I love You Tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lABvKuDZFKE

Hmm. So I'm the only one who cares? I realize it's not the best song in the world, perhaps, but it's been the missing chapter in her Live Aid performance for me, it's the missing link, the mystery solved, I feel so relieved.

It's ok -- this appeared on True Blue, no?

I don't know - did it? I've been wondering what album it came off if any. I guess I could look it up and I will do so, but too tired right now.

Indeed it did. Last track, in fact.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/True-Blue-Madonna/dp/B000002L9S/ref=sr_1_1/202-6023791-6219064?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1190557045&sr=1-1

Anyway, much better than the "Revolution" train wreck.

Christ almighty Alfred you are OTM in that regard! I mean that shit was just tragic.

Anyway, isn't it about time she releases a compilation containing the original 7" versions of her singles? Particularly "True Blue" sounded very different as a single than as an album track (and video), and it isn't avaiable anywhere except in its 12" version as a bonus track on the "True Blue" remaster.

She needs to fuck off and retire at long last.

She should rather have rested from 1990 to 1997, as she didn't produce much of value during that period anyway. From 1998 onwards, she has been great.

Dud. Fucking horrible woman.

I don't know what's most over-rated - her music or her "looks".

I'd rather hear Guy Ritchie sing. And wear a cone-shaped bra, come to think of it.....

She needs to fuck off and retire at long last.

-- Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 01:49 (10 hours ago) Bookmark Link

83 - 89 = CLASSIC
92 - 94 = ok
98 = quite good but not classic
99 - present = DUD

i think her voice is actually underrated. listening to angel recently and although she has difficulty reaching the low notes, i like how she used to sing in a lower register than how she sings today. she seemed to have more vocal character then. though it might also be cos she seemed to have more of a soul/R&B influence back then too.

Her lower register = classic. Responsible for: "Angel," "Live To Tell," "Who's That Girl," "Oh Father," etc.

she should have gone away after ray of light, though even there, i think dance music brings bad qualities (and lyrics) out in her. but then her decision to write so much of her own material since then in association with a producer seems to bring out worse qualities. the only two ROL songs i really like are candy perfume girl and the title track.

I love "Skin", probably my favorite track on the album.

Actually a decent amount of that album has her in her lower register, which I agree is better than her middle/upper register.

titchy with the most boring received wisdom on her eras there

"Beautiful Stranger"
"Open Your Heart"
"Ray of Light"
"Holiday"
"Miles Away"

One quirky one.

Holiday
Into the Groove
White Heat
Erotica (Masters at Work Bass Hit Dub)
La Isla Bonita (Sepp Edit)

Happy to see the Deeper & Deeper love here, love that one so much

I'm not sure I am familiar with any 7" single versions. Are they radically different, or just radio edits?

Some of them, like "Express Yourself", "Keep It Together", and "Celebration" are very different. Most of them are just radio edits.

Feel like back in the 1990s or early 2000s, Justify My Love would have enjoyed a lot more action in this thought exercise

Live To Tell
Bad Girl
Lucky Star
Physical Attraction
Open Your Heart

Vogue
Take a Bow
Substitute for Love
Ray of Light
Don't Tell Me

into the groove
holiday
crazy for you
drowned world/substitute for love
god control

I LOATHE the Shep Pettibone remix of Express Yourself. Always have, always will.

.. which one? :)

Vogue
Open your heart 12”
Justify your love (William orbit mix)
Deeper and deeper
Secret garden

The justify your love beast within mix by Lenny Kravitz would also be a fun vote

Brainwasher said this once and I’m fully on board .. an Andre Betts helmed album in the spirit of “waiting” “secret garden” “where life begins” would have been a fire erótica sequel

He didn’t phrase it that way but yea

began today by watching all three of her lengthy Jonathan Ross interviews, from '92, '03 and '15. the 2003 one is my favourite. American Life is my second favourite album of hers anyway for many reasons but on a purely personal level it kinda annoys me (which in turn fascinates me) that i just don't remember that period at all from the time (honestly i think its songs not being on v/a hits compilations contributed to this, but this is also the era where every major album sleeve is burned into my brain from seemingly always being in tesco/asda/hmv/smiths/woolies). I went from having favourites on GHV2 to Hung Up being released and and feeling that Madonna was the biggest thing in pop. That was part of the buzz when I eventually heard AL for the first time (by then contextualised as 'major misstep') and found it to be dazzling and puzzling but hidden from me in plain sight. The thought of an American Life 2 or something like it would intrigue me much more than the Confessions 2 she's apparently making with Price.

surely AL2 = The Mirwais album ?

Madame X? It doesn't scratch a similar sort of itch.

Funnily, Mirwais' version of Miss You *was* something I knew in 2003, because I had it on this compilation

From https://dankmadonna.blogspot.com/2026/04/everybody-m-adonna-live-at-no-entiendes.html

"'EVERYBODY' Madonna live at "No Entiendes" Danceteria · 12.16.1982

Madonna’s very first performance under her new SIRE management contract : Her single EVERYBODY performed with dancer Bagz Rilley, Erika Belle and Martin Burgoyne. This video was remastered to HD from the low-quality SD file leaked in 2005 by Haoui Montaug himself from his personal archives."

(gDrive download link on that blog)

Cool!

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Times Square popup today in NYC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlkIEAZ_824