The Replacements: Classic or Dud?

I didn't mean that people who "don't get" the Replacements lose. I meant that people who don't get Mark's post lose. You, obviously, lose. Sorry. :)

When people go on and on about Husker Du, I understand, because Bob Mould and Co. were doing some very cool stuff within the framework of accessible, understandable rock music. The Replacements don't and could never compare to that.

I gave the replacements a try, I really did -- I knew people who raved about them so I tried to give them a chance to impress me.They didn't. I have listened to all of their material up through Pleased to Meet Me. It's not bad...but on other hand, there's just nothing particularly compelling about it to give it that spark that the best pop music has. I don't hate it - I just don't love it either, so I'm still a little baffled as to how you read the phrase "on the fence" as a stand-in for "dislike".

I never "admitted to" being turned off by the beery self-mythology. I was just casting about for an explanation of why certain people might be into them to such a fanatical extent. Maybe I should have included other reasons, to make the point more clear. You know, like maybe it wasn't the beery self-mythology people liked, it was the fact that Tommy Stinson looked like a hairier version of Rob Lowe if you were squinting in a smoky club (well, it was the eighties)? Or maybe airline pilots worldwide rallied round their cause for having the courage to diss stewardesses in "Waitress in the Sky"? Maybe that's what earned them all of that "parise". I don't honestly know.

If that means I've lost something, well...as the legendary Robbie Neville once sang, "C'est La Vie". :-)

Nicole: Pardon my errant assumption, but it sure sounded like you were giving the "beery self-mythology" as your reason for not liking them since you didn't give any other reasons.

The Replacements and Soul Asylum are both from the Twin Cities and have, at alternate times, been held up as examples of how vibrant and wonderful the Twin Cities music scene is. The Goo Goo Dolls are from Buffalo and therefore irrelevant to the conversation.

I said that The Replacements and Soul Asylum represent the worst of what the Twin Cities music scene had to offer, yet both bands seem to be liked a lot and I could never understand why.

Tim (after taking a moment to slam Husker Du) asked why I didn't bring up the Goo Goo Dolls.

I stated that the Goo Goo Dolls were from Buffalo and have nothing to do with my point, which is that the Replacements and Soul Asylum are two of the worst bands to come out of the Twin Cities.

Tim has a fit.

There are a ton of jokes begging to be made here, but in light of Tom's new stance regarding abusive posts, I will refrain. So, to Tim: Since you want to bring the Goo Goo Dolls into this so desperately, I can't say that they rank among my favorite bands, either, but at least their lead singer can sing. That will excuse many things in my book. (Also, congratulations on being the first person on these boards to attempt to take a shot at me for posting with a Harvard email address.)

Anyway, by your "relevance" thinking, what does Soul Asylum have to do with the Replacements? Do you think that has more or less musical relevance than what the Goo Goo Dolls have to do with the Replacements? If "your point" was that Soul Asylum is crap, why bring it up in a Replacements thread? Just because they're both from Minneapolis? Fine (however backwards as I see it), but allow me the same freedom to bring up a band that is far more relevant to the "conversation", and the Goo Goo Dolls seem more relevant to the Mats in a musical context than Soul Asylum. And we're still talking about the MUSIC, right?

And was I REALLY "slamming" Husker Du? Do I now need to recap what I said or can we all just scroll up a bit to re-read it? (I'm going to trust that we've learned to use them by now.) I didn't rip 'em a new a-hole or anything. I don't "slam" many bands and certainly not HD. But they have neither the highs nor the longevity of the Mats.

Now, you ask, "What does Soul Asylum have to do with the Replacements?" Perhaps if you had utilized your newly-mastered skill with scroll bars, you would have noticed that I initially wrote, "They, along with Soul Asylum, represent the nadir of the Twin Cities music scene and I, for one, could never fathom why people liked them so much." Once you've mastered reading comprehension, you'll see several pieces of information in that sentence:

- I think The Replacements are horrifically overrated.
- I think Soul Asylum is horrifically overrated.
- Both bands come from the Twin Cities.
- Both bands have received critical acclaim and have been held up as representations of Twin Cities music.
- I think that there are a lot of bands from the Twin Cities who are much better than both bands. I facetiously (oops, sorry: jokingly) said Limited Warranty, but that list also includes Husker Du/Sugar/Bob Mould, Walt Mink, The Blue Up?, Tool & Die, Savage Aural Hotbed, Prince and the NPG, The Time/Morris Day/Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Psykosonik, Project X, Lies Incorporated, and Ex- Boyfriends of Pamela.

The only reason I brought up Soul Asylum was to illustrate a point about how people view the music scene in the Twin Cities. I was not equating Soul Asylum to The Replacements as far as their respective sounds are concerned. I never claimed to equate their respective sounds (beyond putting them in a general category called "Bad").

As far as "slamming" Husker Du is concerned: You just said that they had neither the highs nor the longevity of the Replacements. Considering how painfully mediocre the Replacements are, I don't see that as a very positive comment on Husker Du.

Finally, I'd like to point out that, unless there's been a major bio- engineering breakthrough while I wasn't looking, the Replacements aren't your mother and I'm somewhat puzzled as to why you're reacting so vehemently at my disdain. I'm further puzzled as to why you're obsessed with where I went to school, but I really can't do anything about other people's jealousy.

I eagerly await your nonsensical, ranting reply.

(On a different note, I actually think the Replacements should get classic status from their seminal proto-slacker attitude, which was fairly distinct at the time)

I think that their slacker attitude (as opposed to Pavement's) does not translate well outside the US. (For the reverse thread - I would suggest Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians: "The Man With the Lightbulb Head" reminds me of British comedies on PBS. They're funny, though I never feel like I'm laughing for the right reasons.) A 'beery self-mythology' would leave songs like "Androgynous" and "Little Mascara" unexplained.

I think that Paul Westerberg may have sounded 'bleaurghiriffic' (great word!!) intentionally, but I find this endearing, like the nasality of Jonathan Richman's voice.

I'll quote part of Dan Perry's answer to the tunes thread: "Certain tunes fit certain ways of singing. Certain ways of singing fit certain tunes. [...] Is it suited to the lyrics being sung? Is it suited to the voice singing it? Does the person have the vocal training to pull it off? Does the person have too much vocal training to pull it off?"

I think Paul Westerberg's way of singing fit his songs. On the other hand, listeners may have different tolerances for vocal imperfections based upon their own training.

I think the claim that the Replacements' 'conflicted conflictedness' makes their songs illegitimate is not the same as saying ska-punk is bad because it rips off other musical genres. Experience may be genuinely secondhand. I think it's a suburban thing.

So I would say CLASSIC, but not for reasons of technical virtuosity or being really innovative or anything like that.

I hope I haven't destroyed the fun of this thread.

Dan, if I knew where you were, I'd buy you a beer too cause you definitely need to lighten up a little.

etc., etc., etc.

That's one of few punk albums I like. It's just so dang good.

"Mature" Replacements just don't ring my bell. They're just songs, y'know? Not bad, not especially good. Just songs, and who needs more of those.

Isn't that it, though? This long discussion has mostly just varied by personal taste and that common problem of 'young man rock passion,' where dumbass young man can't see over his ego (to his mind, quite a large vein! --lmfao) to see that his view is not the only one in the world.

Good call! Now that you mention it it does seem reminiscent of "Don't tell a Soul" era Replacements, when they were patiently plugging away at MTV in the hopes of getting REM big.

Jimmy Fallon (wearing glasses): Cool, Tina.

Tina: That's right, it's... Jimmy! You don't wear glasses!

Jimmy: I-I don't?

Tina: No! What's going to happen next!

(Winonna Ryder runs out)

Winonna Ryder (VERY HOT): One of you is the father of my child!

(shocked looks as they all freeze for the camera. Winonna Ryder cracks up. Scene falls apart)

Oh, and I grew up in and around the Twin Cities, too, so I figure my line of bullshit is just as qualified as anyone else ranting around here.

Virtually from the time they signed to Twin/Tone, the Replacements were hated by many other local musicians, probably from jealousy as much as anything else. Which is the way it's always been up there (or anywhere else on earth, I imagine) and why it's such a pathetic "scene." The same thing happens to every band that sells any records or gains a scintilla of popularity: they get ragged on. The hissing and backbiting for Trip Shakespeare, the Geardaddies, the Jayhawks, even Prince...if a band could fill the main room a couple of nights at the First Avenue, they definitely were too popular for the Twin Town cognoscenti. Time and time again I endured bitching by worthless other bands about how Westerberg sold out, couldn't write good songs, couldn't play for shit, and the worst offense--that he quit drinking and lost his talent with his habit--whenever crawling the racks at the various record stores and clubs around town. Sick.

The Replacements had some great, great moments in their released work, though live they were generally spotty. Westerberg's songs were not groundbreaking or sonically challenging but to refer to The Replacements as representative of the "worst" that the Twin Cities has or had to offer is just plain bullshit. It smacks of the immature jealousy that ruins any potential music scene. And it's all based on the fact that more people bought 'Mats' albums than Walt Mink's. And while I didn't get into all the other bands proffered up by Perry as better than the Replacements, I saw more than a few bad nights by a few of them to know that they were far from perfect. Or more relevant in any way.

The Replacements are a classic.

I'm not at all jealous of The Replacements. I just don't like them. Surely that isn't very difficult to comprehend?

At least, not any more than you are.

It's not that you just "don't like them." It's that you posit that they were the *worst* of what the Twin Cities had to offer. I mean really, you can't think of dozens of other bands who were worse? Or, as I posit, do you just think they represented the nadir of the scene because a) so many people knew who they were and b) so many more people bought their records?

There were and are plenty of reasonable people who think that the Replacements were a dumbed down version of Thin Lizzy or a lazy version of Bad Company. There are also plenty of reasonable people who think that the Replacements had some damn great songs. But you're part of the group who is intent on spinning their success (?) into something much more negative than that, something that the local music scene never needed. If anything, the attention the Replacements brought on to the indie scene in Minneapolis gave a lot of bands deals that they likely never otherwise would have had. The cancer on any scene is resentment, and whether you will deny you had any towards the Replacements, a lot of bands did.

RIP Paul Wellstone.

I freely admit that my stance on The Replacements as put forward in this thread is blatant hyperbole. I'm certain that there are many TC bands I want nothing to do with who are *objectively* (if you can measure that) worse than The Replacements. My issue with The Replacements is that they don't hit any of my emotions or any of my "ooh, that's neat!" buttons. The bands I listed do. I think _Miss Happiness_ is one of the most underrated albums of the 90s, Husker Du were phenomenal, and most of the other groups I listed outside of the Prince Axis are dance/industrial groups whose core audience probably wouldn't have had anything to do with The Replacements, anyway. I mean, the entire focus of Savage Aural Hotbed was performance art featuring kodo drumming, PVC tubing, guitar squalls, woodwind abuse and tricks with rhythm; if that's the type of thing you're looking for in your music, you're going to find The Replacements wildly uninteresting. (Likewise, the first Walt Mink song I heard was "Croton-Harmon", with its super-syncopation and absolutely killer 4/4:7/8 hook between verses; once I heard that, I was ready to dive into the rest of the album full steam.)

So, you can look at my stance from a particular viewpoint and say, "Well, he hates them because he's jealous of their success," but that's woefully inaccurate. It's much closer to "He hates them because he's not at all disposed towards the style of music they embody, but people latched onto it and he had to hear them everywhere he went because of his older brother."

(kidding)

For the record, I think and thought that the Huskers were overrated, and that Bob Mould's ego kept them from being a better band. And, while the Huskers were overrated, I loved them just the same. And since we're playing full disclosure, I will readily admit that the legacy of the Replacements is just as overrated as their live shows were. That hasn't kept them from being one of my favorite all time bands, either. If I had to measure artistic credibility or musical ambition on everything I loved, my record collection would be pretty tiny.

And that's sort of my point, actually. Within every music scene there is snobbery, and more than often than not, this snobbery is directed at bands who encounter success or at the very least, notoriety. On a larger scale--say nationally or worldly, for example--it's not all that destructive to detest the success of, say, Creed and blame it all on the mooks or other knuckle draggers. But on a local level it's quite destructive, especially when virtually any local success that translates beyond the immediate realm brings more attention to acts that normally would never see an audience. Maybe Nirvana was too rockist or too commerical for your taste, but they introduced a lot of kids to the Wipers, the Raincoats, and even Sonic Youth. The Replacements had the same effect on me; without them, I never would have ever bothered with many of the other local bands of the day, whether it was the Suburbs or the Hang Ups or 24/7 Various or any of the other wannabes who never made it. It's hard to imagine AmRep ever having a life at all without the attention the Huskers and Replacements brought to Minneapolis in the mid 80s.

That's why, to read your post, even though I knew it was hyperbole, disturbed me so. It reminded me of when I was younger and living up there and participating in a scene that so clearly measured quality by a lack of quantity in records sold. I'm sure *you* were objectively not interested in whatever the Replacements were doing in those days, but so many others who hated the Replacements did so out of jealousy and little reason else. At least you aren't interested in that style of music. Every other hata I knew based most of their anger on the fact that the Replacements got great ink wherever they went.

I guess the short version is that you, who aren't predisposed to even like music like the Replacements, couched your argument two separate times in the context of how the band represented the Twin Cities. That kinda hurt, and jackasses like me are predisposed to fly off the handle.

BTW, the Suburbs were a great band.

Classic, so ya know. (though Dan's got me doubting some songs on Tim if not Let It Be, which IS perfect - the best rock album evah, goddamnit).

Alfred's Got a Boner

All this talk makes me want a biopic of Pollard

Danny McBride and Walton Goggins as Bob and Tobin.

lol

Leaving aside the lameness of some of the company here — and the center squish of Spanberger — this is still a good show by Tommy.

https://i.imgur.com/acMCXpf.png

Wow. Didn't know Klobuchar was in Manassas.

Has anyone listened yet?

Didn’t buy Let it Be box set and not seeing it in streaming yet

Oops it is on streaming

I bought it, but tracking only says a label was made so I guess Electric Fetus still needs to drop it off at the post office. (I ordered from them because they had that exclusive free live CD as a bonus.)

Haven't checked for original painting yet:

The Replacements' album art

The painting that inspired the band's second album, Not Available, a variant image of Edweena of that used on cover. The back of the album credits it as “based on a drawing by a Resident”. Sold by PBA Galleries for $4,062 following an estimate of $200-$300.

https://www.finebooksmagazine.com/fine-books-news/robert-hoe-accused-lincoln-conspirator-letter-and-replacements-album-art-week-rare

uh i think you mean The Residents

sic!

If Paul Westerberg ever comes out of retirement, he should do it as a secret gig swap with the Residents, because man that would be hilarious for about five minuets before the anger of the concertgoers got out of hand.

i like both!

I was all, Who the hell is Edweena?

https://i.ibb.co/Y4gBXXns/MS0x-Mjk2-Lmpw-ZWc.jpg

Loool!

i had that record in my shop decades ago

https://preview.redd.it/mats-sighting-on-snl-v0-80xnuovfz1eg1.jpeg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=d1c02021e929e7d9d4380a730d8d659d6c6fc079

Bob Mehr suggested on social media that Finn's hair in a later sketch was also a tribute to Tommy's crazy barnet from the Mats' infamous SNL performance. He did not wear Bob's loon pants - WIMP!

Love the almost deep focus effect in the photo of Valerie Dee Naranjo standing in the back pretty much echoing his pose.