I only with he had continued making "traditional" Paul Simon albums. "Hearts And Bones" was his best ever, and he has yet to record a proper followup that is mainly the work of Paul Simon and not just Paul Simon trying to show some talented ethnic musicians to the world.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 26 September 2003 11:51 (twenty years ago) link
― dleone (dleone), Friday, 26 September 2003 12:01 (twenty years ago) link
what if you don't care about the coding? I mean, is the music bad?
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 26 September 2003 16:48 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 26 September 2003 16:52 (twenty years ago) link
― dleone (dleone), Friday, 26 September 2003 17:10 (twenty years ago) link
I lean towards the former, since I cannot get the songs out of my head (in a good way) without even listening to the freakin' album.
― frankE (frankE), Monday, 7 June 2004 13:50 (twenty years ago) link
― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 7 June 2004 15:16 (twenty years ago) link
― King Kobra (King Kobra), Monday, 7 June 2004 16:01 (twenty years ago) link
― christoff (christoff), Monday, 7 June 2004 16:32 (twenty years ago) link
― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 08:38 (nineteen years ago) link
The whole album's good, and the best songs are way better than good.
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 08:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 08:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 08:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Stormy Davis (diamond), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 09:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― derrick (derrick), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 10:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― chevy chase, Tuesday, 8 February 2005 10:16 (nineteen years ago) link
You're the one saying 'primitive', 'exotic' and 'other', buddy! I don't think that's how the record is received. What has fetishism got to do with it anyway?
― Miles Finch, Tuesday, 8 February 2005 10:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― stew, Tuesday, 8 February 2005 11:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 12:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 12:58 (nineteen years ago) link
At this distance, the album is both a classic and overrated. There is an awful lot of filler on the second side. But the first six songs are among the best Simon has ever written, musically and lyrically. Boy and Graceland, especially, have fabulous lyrics, and Diamonds remains stunningly pretty. Nothing on Rhythm of the Saints or Hearts and Bones -- both of which I like a lot -- really comes close to those.
The colonialism charge is completely misplaced. This was totally different than, say, Joni Mitchell's Jungle Line, where she recorded over loops of field recordings of African drums, and used those sounds as a metaphor for mystery, darkness, man's primitive nature, primal truth, etc. Simon was inspired by a new kind of music he heard, but he was never using it in an objectified way. His use of township jive for hipster New York narratives emphasized the sophistication and (gulp) universality of the music, not its exoticism. He was using African music much the way Kurt Weill used blues in Mahagonny, or Mahler used Chinese music in Das Lied von der Erde, or Cheb Khaled used Irish music in Abdul Qadr, or David Byrne uses Brazilian music all the time, or, for that matter, all of alt-country: acts of cross-cultural engagement and respect, not appropriation.
And, just to make things clear to those who were not around then, Simon bent over backwards to credit his African collaborators at the time. Not just Ladysmith Black Mambazo, but also especially Ray Phiri (guitar) and Baghiti Khumalo (bass), both of whom also contributed to Rhythm of the Saints and toured with Simon for years. But there was never any question that these were Paul Simon songs (except for the one song that was recorded over a pre-existing track). That is part of what gave the project its strangeness and excitement.
― Vornado (Vornado), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 15:08 (nineteen years ago) link
Thought two: this-- "His use of township jive for hipster New York narratives emphasized the sophistication and (gulp) universality of the music, not its exoticism. He was using African music much the way Kurt Weill used blues in Mahagonny, or Mahler used Chinese music in Das Lied von der Erde, or Cheb Khaled used Irish music in Abdul Qadr, or David Byrne uses Brazilian music all the time, or, for that matter, all of alt-country: acts of cross-cultural engagement and respect, not appropriation" --is quite right and well put.
Thought three: "Boy in the Bubble" ought to have been a bigger hit than "You Can Call Me Al," but such things can't be helped. I also like "I Know What I Know" and even the one with Linda Rondstadt, "Under African Skies."
Thought four: I agree that Rhythm of the Saints is a fantastic record that is way underrated.
― The Mad Puffin, Tuesday, 8 February 2005 15:24 (nineteen years ago) link
― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 15:30 (nineteen years ago) link
Of course, if you don't like Simon (and I really can't stand Simon & Garfunkel), then this "Graceland" argument is largely moot. I think it and the eponymous debut are his best work.
I've been curious about "Hearts & Bones" for years (I heard the track with Chic the other day), but am afraid it's gonna sound as static and morose as "Rene & Georgette Magritte..." or "Train in the Distance."
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 15:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tantrum (Tantrum The Cat), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 18:44 (nineteen years ago) link
Anyway, I don't know--this record annoys me, actually; like many here I like that bass playing. But Paul Simon is a very annoying singer to my ears. Every time I hear this or that awful fucking Ry Cooder Buena Vista Social Club crap, I think back on the Drew Friedman cartoon of Simon and Byrne meetin' up in the jungle, both with their portable tape recorders. Still, Ry Cooder is far more the villain for doing what he did to Cuban music, in my opinion; it's ridiculous, too, that we can't *go* to Cuba easily and find out what's going on there.
― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 21:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 21:57 (nineteen years ago) link
I liked "Graceland" aside from the Ronstadt track (she irks me on a number of levels), and saw the '86 show at Radio City (Ladysmith, Masekela, Makeba).
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 22:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Colin Meeder (Mert), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 23:01 (nineteen years ago) link
I ask you: is this a government that cares about art?
As for Simon...I'm loath to call Simon a colonialist. Insulting labels are only applicable in the case of failed or flawed art, which Graceland certainly isn't.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 23:28 (nineteen years ago) link
― Logan (the_three_G_s), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 00:04 (nineteen years ago) link
The graceleand album whether it is your cup of tea or not is a remarkable album from what I call a genius of a man. He is a phenomenal singer, and I think comments like eddshurts:
Is a bunch of bullcrap ok you dont like it, but he didnt do anything to cuban music its called a striving musician growing and striving for something new and exciting, and succeeding in that too!
Like I said any good musician would have respect for if not love Paul Simon.
― shane nancarrow (shane237), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 12:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 12:41 (eighteen years ago) link
ILM: Arguing About Records We Don't Own And May Not Have Even Heard
― Edward Bax (EdBax), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 13:37 (eighteen years ago) link
The Blue Aeroplanes onced covered it, but I never found their version particularly engaging. I'm actually not sure if it was an issue with their cover specifically, or just general fatique with the song.
― Edward Bax (EdBax), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 13:43 (eighteen years ago) link
Matter of fact, they would sound dissapointingly weak then, with the exception of "Diamonds On The Soles Of Her Shoes" and maybe one or two more. The songs were built around the African beats, and they just don't hold up as pure songs the way the songs on his earlier albums did.
Which I why I like consider "Graceland" one of his weakest albums btw.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 14:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 15:02 (eighteen years ago) link
Generally it is a good way to judge whether a song is good or not. Personally I know it would show very well how those songs are not good.
The best songs work perfectly backed by only a guitar or a piano. Always. This also includes Simon's best songs. Most of which were written in 1982-83 or earlier.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 15:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 15:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 15:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 15:58 (eighteen years ago) link
Perhaps that's because he's American.
― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 16:39 (eighteen years ago) link
-- Geir Hongro (geirhon...), May 17th, 2006.
http://www.mywasteofspace.com/heehee.gif
― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 17:13 (eighteen years ago) link
Western music is European.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 20:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 21:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 21:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― neustile (neustile), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 22:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Thursday, 5 October 2006 21:19 (seventeen years ago) link
Legit. pre-release version of a forthcoming release; rare Japanese import; bootleg; or figment of someone's imagination?
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 6 October 2006 12:16 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.bide-et-musique.com/images/thumb150/1391.jpg
― 35 Hertz (35 Hertz), Friday, 6 October 2006 15:07 (seventeen years ago) link
Whoah waht
― Οὖτις, Monday, 13 August 2018 00:53 (five years ago) link
good story
― sprout god (lag∞n), Monday, 13 August 2018 01:03 (five years ago) link
that's funny. you can tell there's a synth but i always figured it was blended with a real sax.
― call all destroyer, Monday, 13 August 2018 01:24 (five years ago) link
Cool story, Belew
― empire bro-lesque (morrisp), Monday, 13 August 2018 01:41 (five years ago) link
My Graceland cover band — The Roly-Poly Little Rat-Faced Girls — will be playing tmrrw night at Jack’s Bar & Grill on Rt. 8
― empire bro-lesque (morrisp), Monday, 13 August 2018 02:18 (five years ago) link
Okay so real talk: tell me, is this sudden Simon-thread-bumping some kind of passive-aggressive revenge thing vs. the Leonard Cohen partisans in that other thread?
(Either way, I'm on board. "Under African Skies" still makes me happy just by existing.)
― leica bridge over troubled cameras (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 13 August 2018 02:20 (five years ago) link
Nah, this is just a great album (you heard it hear first).
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 August 2018 02:22 (five years ago) link
It was just hearing that Graceland remix album that made me bump it yesterday. But hearing that and seeing Angelique Kidjo live earlier this week got me thinking about 80s African-influenced pop.
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 13 August 2018 02:49 (five years ago) link
It does feel like its moment has cycled around again, somehow...
― empire bro-lesque (morrisp), Monday, 13 August 2018 03:02 (five years ago) link
A while back someone posted a copy of the bootleg cassette that may have inspired Simon. Whether that was true or not who knows, but I know I downloaded a copy and that it was a great listen. Anyone remember the title so that I can find it on my computer?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 August 2018 12:19 (five years ago) link
Oh, that was easy:
http://www.kleptones.com/blog/2012/06/28/hectic-city-15-paths-to-graceland/#.W3F3cy2ZPVo
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 August 2018 12:22 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYJv6nol0Fw&feature=youtu.be
Crazy comments in here.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 August 2018 12:28 (five years ago) link
that's a cool belew story but not sure I completely get the point - he's doing the main riff on YCCMA or he's doing some weird synth buried in the mix?
― niels, Monday, 13 August 2018 14:12 (five years ago) link
Pretty sure he's saying he did the main "horn" riff! As "played" by Chevy and Paul here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq-gYOrU8bA
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 August 2018 14:15 (five years ago) link
wow, that's kinda wild
― niels, Monday, 13 August 2018 14:23 (five years ago) link
Oh, that was easy:http://www.kleptones.com/blog/2012/06/28/hectic-city-15-paths-to-graceland/#.W3F3cy2ZPVo― Josh in Chicago, Monday, August 13, 2018 1:22 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, August 13, 2018 1:22 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
All these years and I've never heard that. It was worth logging on one more time.
― Ned Trifle X, Monday, 13 August 2018 14:33 (five years ago) link
Josh - thanks for the link, that tape is great.
― empire bro-lesque (morrisp), Monday, 13 August 2018 16:49 (five years ago) link
Long 1987 profile:
Queens Bound: https://t.co/30spdF201Y pic.twitter.com/qrzNEnqJxO— Esquire Classic (@EsquireClassic) March 27, 2019
― ... (Eazy), Wednesday, 27 March 2019 14:23 (five years ago) link
lol paul simon qualified as angst in 1987 what fn babies
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 27 March 2019 17:20 (five years ago) link
Over the mountain, down in the valley, live some bitter Los Lobos
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, April 10, 2015 3:43 PM (six years ago) bookmarkflaglink
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 5 February 2022 19:30 (two years ago) link
Mentioned it in the main Simon thread, but the 5-hour audio doc on Paul Simon covers a lot of Graceland ground, including some of the jams that led to the songs, and the complications of the whole thing. Worth buying (or streaming on Audible), for sure.
― deep luminous trombone (Eazy), Saturday, 5 February 2022 20:30 (two years ago) link