REM: Classic or dud?

Jealous! Shame I didn't see them around that time, as they were playing loads of classics. The Live At Olympia sets are something of a fan boy's dream. Think their last Scottish show was Balloch Country Park around the time of Around The Sun? Didn't have much desire to go cos the album was so dull, and there wasn't a huge amount of fanfare around the gig. That's a big space - Oasis did two nights there in their pomp - perhaps too big for REM at that stage? Scratch, that it was T In The Park, an awful corporate festival. Wish they'd done a headline date as well, back then. A friend saw them at Twickenham and said they were brilliant, but tellingly, the venue wasn't quite full.

For some time I've wanted to start a thread about Stipe's inexplicable tuneless chant during live versions of Man On The Moon, speculating as to WHY.

Like to think of Stipe as a good singer with some real chops but every once in a while he does something to make me ask that question, but maybe it is some deep stuff, some Ornette Coleman stuff or something.

It would have been better had he done likewise throughout Leaving New York instead. Perhaps then they'd still be together

One of the things that really bothered me about Monster was the short bridge on "Bang and Blame" that sounded like a lazy rip off of the one from "Orange Crush". I always fill in the vocals from the latter when I hear the former. It's like they couldn't even be bothered coming up with something new...

god, that live clip...stipe with the black bar painted across his eyes, that stupid hand wave thing he does in time to every "yeah yeah yeah" and when the camera pans to the audience every fucking person is doing it back to him..."coool" almost doesn't even rate as one of the most embarrassing things happening there.

always hated bang and blame, chorus just super shrill and annoying. and i like most of monster.
sort of hated the video for it too, whereas most of the monster videos were cool.

I was absolutely floored by this acoustic version of "Let Me In" they were bringing out on the last (final?) tour:

http://youtu.be/hDt29lklkUc

VERY comprehensive REM setlist guide here http://www.remtimeline.com/

xp re the venues, yeah in Cardiff on the last tour they had to move from a 48,000 cap venue to an arena with a cap of 7,500
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/7548038.stm

wow. that makes me more sad than the news of their breakup.

I hated the REM set I was in Baton Rouge on the Monster tour. Looking back at the setlist shows me why. Michael was helped offstage at the end of the show. Saw them again at Bumbershoot in Seattle in the early 00s and the sight of Peter Buck doing windmills and jumping around turned me off for good. Wish I had seen their show at the Crocodile when they played all the old stuff though.

was = saw in that first sentence, btw.

In the wake of the split, listened to all of the REM albums in discographical order after having not listened to them for quite some time...

Murmur - ****
Reckoning - ****.5
Fables Of The Reconstruction - ***.5
Lifes Rich Pageant - ****
Document - ****
Green - ****.5
Out Of Time - ***.5
Automatic For The People - *****
Monster - ****
New Adventures In Hi-Fi - ****.5
Up - ***
Reveal - ***
Around The Sun - **
Accelerate - ****
Collapse Into Now - ***.5

People hating on Bang & Blame are wrong. Not mad on the chorus, but I love that shivery "Shakin' All Over" guitar tone and eerie "If you could see yourself now ba-by" verse...

this was the first REM gig i went to:

2 December 1984 - Lyceum Ballroom, London, England
support: The Lucy Show, The Lyres
set: Second Guessing / Harborcoat / Seven Chinese Brothers / Hyena / Talk About The Passion / Auctioneer (Another Engine) / So. Central Rain / Good Advices / Letter Never Sent / Driver 8 / Gardening At Night / 9-9-Hey Diddle Diddle-Frogmore / Windout / Old Man Kensey / (Don't Go Back To) Rockville / Pretty Persuasion / Little America
encore 1: White Tornado / See No Evil / We Walk-Behind Closed Doors / 1,000,000
encore 2: Moon River / Wendell Gee / I Can Only Give You Everything / Carnival Of Sorts (Boxcars)

Even at the time it seemed like a really long show!

turrican they are regs in my listening life. this is how i rate them

Murmur - *****
Reckoning - ****.5
Fables Of The Reconstruction - ****.5
Lifes Rich Pageant - ****.5
Document - ****
Green - ****.5
Out Of Time - ***.5
Automatic For The People - ****
Monster - ***
New Adventures In Hi-Fi - ****.5
Up - ***
Reveal - ***
Around The Sun - **
Accelerate - ***.5
Collapse Into Now - ***.5

you all aren't rating chronic town? it should get a ******

wow now i feel like an asshole for discussing a 4 and a half star album so much the other day

lol

Chronic Town A
Murmur - A+
Reckoning - A-
Fables Of The Reconstruction - B/B-
Lifes Rich Pageant - A-
Document - Side 1: B
Side 2: D+
Green - D
Out Of Time - D
Automatic For The People - C
Monster - Give me a fucking break.
New Adventures In Hi-Fi - Stop it
Up - Are you kidding me
Reveal - Would you guys just break up already
Around The Sun - [throws up]
Accelerate - [eats his own throw up]
Collapse Into Now - [throws up his own throw up]

Chronic Town through Monster - memorized in adolescence, unable to accurately judge, own all in entirety
New Adventures - thought it was bloated from the get-go but still the work of geniuses, kept about 7 tracks, most from side 1
Up - convinced myself it was a 7 out of 10 when it came out, now have "daysleeper," "hope," "suspicion"
Reveal - shit sundae, only ever liked "Imitation Of Life"
Around The Sun - heard "Leaving New York" stayed away
Accelerate - heard "Superserious Shit Sundae" or whatever, stayed away
Collapse Into Now " - heard "Discoverer," stayed away

Now curious to force myself to hear the last four albums in full

Is there any other post-1980 band that seems to have such strong lines drawn along generational gaps?

I really like the production on The Lifting, the first song on Reveal, it's got this awesome swirl of sound going on. The song itself is only okay.

How can people be giving Out Of Time Ds and 2/5 stars? Other than Radio Song, what the fuck is wrong with it?

I don't know if I'd love shit like "Texarkana" if I heard it for the first time as an adault

On Out Of Time, they don't sound like they enjoy playing with each other...or at all.

how do you determine this?

I get the opposite impression from "Near Wild Heaven": a band so happy to trade instruments that everybody acts a little goofy.

"chronic town" ************************.5. if this was side one of a record with a side 2 as strong it would about the best debut album ever

yeah, i'd say that out of time is a pretty natural sounding record, don't see how it sounds like a band tired of each other. on the contrary, it sounds kind of joyful for a band that had been together for a decade already.

Is there any other post-1980 band that seems to have such strong lines drawn along generational gaps?

probably not. doesn't help that they sound like a totally different band after, say, Document. there's nothing wrong with bands changing and stuff but what they had pre-Document sounds to my ears fairly unique and afterward they became blander and blander.

"Other than Radio Song, what the fuck is wrong with it?"

sometimes it sounds like a weak version of 'green' (sorta the same way "finest work song part ii" -- "turn you inside-out" -- made 'green' come off a little weak (though i prefer 'green' to 'document'!)

radio song < pop song 89
shiny happy people < stand

great jams on side 2 though -- "belong," "country feedback," "me in honey." those last two especially continue the REM tradition of finishing albums with a pair of awesome songs

I rate every song apart from the bookenders Radio Song and Me In Honey very strongly on Out Of Time.

"Radio Song" (feat. KRS-One) BARF
"Losing My Religion" – 4:26 SUPER BARF
"Low" – 4:55 NO
"Near Wild Heaven" – 3:17--hey not bad
"Endgame" – 3:48--isn't this a shitty instrumental?

Side two – "Memory side"

"Shiny Happy People" – 3:44--Fuck You
"Belong" – 4:03--Awesome
"Half a World Away" – 3:26--Pretty great
"Texarkana" – 3:36--would make a great B side
"Country Feedback" – 4:07--I can't remember a thing about this song
"Me in Honey" – 4:06--great

It's worth having just for Country Feedback. Not being that familiar with Green, and having grown up with OOT I might be biased.

how do you determine this?

My first, and ultimately enduring, impression was one of resignation; they sounded sick of playing as a unit (understandably, given that they'd just come off a massive tour). I don't detect any exuberance in any of the playing (not even on the level of Green, to say nothing of Reckoning), and the backing tracks sound pasted together from acceptably professional, one-dimensional takes.

re-reading the (original) It Crawled From The South has been a real eye-opener.

Chronic Town: A-
Murmur: A
Reckoning: B+
Fables of the Reconstruction: B
Life's Rich Pageant: A-
Document: B+
Green: B
Out of Time: A
Automatic: A-
Monster: A-
New Adventures: A-
Up: B
Reveal: C+

"Radio Song" (feat. KRS-One) BARF - yeah barf.
"Losing My Religion" – 4:26 SUPER BARF - it's okay. I always found it darkly uncomfortable, but mayeb a bit forced?
"Low" – 4:55 NO - Yeah,it's good - a bit like Drive
"Near Wild Heaven" – 3:17--hey not bad - Not bad? It's one of their best songs.
"Endgame" – 3:48--isn't this a shitty instrumental? - It's a nice bit of filler, quite pretty.

Side two – "Memory side"

"Shiny Happy People" – 3:44--Fuck You - no fuck you, this is a great bittersweet song.
"Belong" – 4:03--Awesome - I'm glad you like this. Always wondered what it was about?
"Half a World Away" – 3:26--Pretty great - Yeah, a decent one
"Texarkana" – 3:36--would make a great B side - Yes, but it's recently grown on me a lot
"Country Feedback" – 4:07--I can't remember a thing about this song - You're missing out. This, along with Near Wild Heaven is the ultimate.
"Me in Honey" – 4:06--great - I can't remember a thing about this one.

Chronic Town: A
Murmur: A
Reckoning: A
Fables of the Reconstruction: B+
Life's Rich Pageant: B
Document: B+
Green: B
Out of Time: A
Automatic: A
Monster: A-
New Adventures: C
Up: B
Reveal: C-
Accelerate: C

The Chronic: A
Murmur: A
Reckoning: A
Fables: B
Life's: A-
Document: B+
Green: B
Out of Time: A-
Automatic: A
Monster: C
New Adventures: C
Up: B
Reveal: C-
Around the Sun: D
Accelerate: C
Collapse Into Now: C

"Belong" – 4:03--Awesome - I'm glad you like this. Always wondered what it was about?

a mother blessing her child, right? in that q&a thing perpetua hosted a few years back j. michael claimed he stopped doing autobiographical songs by around pageant iirc. anyways, interesting subject matter for a childless man of his persuasion

Murmur: A-
Reckoning: B
Fables of the Reconstruction: B-
Life's Rich Pageant: A
Document: B+
Green: A
Out of Time: B
Automatic: A-
Monster: C+
New Adventures: A-
Up: B
Reveal: B-
Around The Sun: D
Accelerate: C
Collapse into Now: B-

if this is what we are doing now:

Chronic town: A+
Murmur: A
Reckoning: B
Fables of the Reconstruction: A-
Life's Rich Pagaent: B
Document: B-
Green: C-
Out of Time: C+
Automatic for the People: A-
Monster: A
New Adventures in Hi-Fi: A+
Up: B
Reveal: C-
Around the Sun: D
Accelerate: B-
Collapse Into Now: B

Re: Out Of Time

sometimes it sounds like a weak version of 'green' (sorta the same way "finest work song part ii" -- "turn you inside-out" -- made 'green' come off a little weak (though i prefer 'green' to 'document'!)

― reggie (qualmsley)

Yeah, this is pretty much one of the reasons I've personally ended up rating it ***.5

With a couple of exceptions, 'Green' mostly features shorter, snappier tracks, and even the mandolin-based ballads have a feeling of urgency towards them in my opinion. There are a couple of tracks on 'Out Of Time' which feel a little more sprawling, and don't quite engage me in the same way. I don't particularly feel that 'Out Of Time' is as strong a batch of songs as either album that came before and after it, either.

The final thing I noticed about 'Out Of Time' is that even though it has somewhat of a defined 'style' to it, at the same time (and in an odd way), it FEELS far more of a schizophrenic experience than listening to 'Green'. 'Green' had its more rockier, poppier tracks like 'Pop Song 89' and 'Stand' and the mandolin/acoustic ballads like 'You Are The Everything', but the songs seemed to integrate very well. 'Out Of Time' seems much more mood-swingy to me... I guess you could say a small example of this is the difference between 'Losing My Religion' and 'Shiny Happy People', but there are more extreme examples: the record has 'Country Feedback' but also 'Near Wild Heaven'... it has 'Low' and 'Belong' but it also has 'Radio Song' and 'Me In Honey' - it FEELS far more of a bumpier ride, mood-wise and doesn't have the sustained feeling of urgency that characterised 'Green', nor the sense of sombre mood and songwriting consistency that characterized 'Automatic For The People'. I think the mood-swingy nature of the record harms 'Out Of Time' rather than helps it.

1. Radio Song - I love the 'world is collapsing around our ears' parts, but the rest of the track does nothing for me. I find the rap at the end a bit embarrassing too.

2. Losing My Religion - I've noticed there are people here who don't like the track, but let's face it - most bands would give their testicles to write a song as good as this and have what was an unlikely hit with it.

3. Low - Kills the momentum dead on the third track, as far as I'm concerned. I really like the parts where Stipe sings 'you and ME, we know about TIME', but the moment comes a little late into the track for me.

4. Near Wild Heaven - Absolutely gorgeous. Fully deserved to be a single and one of my highlights of 'Out Of Time'.

5. Endgame - I like it, but it's not essential and comes a little early in the album for me. The track sequencing on this album is a bit all over the shop, I think.

6. Shiny Happy People - Yep, pure pop masterpiece. Nothing wrong with this song whatsoever. Love the fact that the intro and the bridge are in 3/4 time. Nice riff, and love the way the vocals are all spread out in the chorus.

7. Belong - Absolutely love the bass in this, but I do remember listening to this for the first time years ago and thinking 'ah, they've used the same idea in the chorus as they did for 'Orange Crush'. As a song in its own right, it is underrated though and a bit of a grower.

8. Half A World Away - Pure perfection, I could not fault this track at all.

9. Texarkana - Sounds fine while the album is playing, but upon closer scrutiny just completely falls apart. A good, listenable well crafted song that is merely okay. Aside from that bass fill. Love that bass fill.

10. Country Feedback - Again, pure perfection. I could not fault this track at all.

11. Me In Honey - Suffers incredibly for me, not least because it comes after 'Country Feedback' in the tracklist. 'Me In Honey' is a bit of a lightweight composition for me to begin with, but coming after 'Country Feedback' makes it seem even MORE lightweight. Don't get me wrong, I kind of understand WHY they put this as the last track, as a bit of respite after 'Country Feedback's emotional heaviness - but it's precisely the emotional heaviness of 'Country Feedback' which makes 'Me In Honey' seem not-so-hot in comparison.

"Me in Honey" has shades of darkness. Listen to those chords and the Stipe-Pierson vocals.

Mr. Que's "Out Of Time" review is how all albums should be reviewed. Truly inspiring piece of writing, sir. And, indeed, "Shiny Happy People" deserves the middle finger.

Just checked your ratings too, qualmsley... our ratings match for about 9 albums! Not too bad given that you regularly listen to REM and this is the first time I've binge-listened to them for about 9 years!

"Me in Honey" has shades of darkness. Listen to those chords and the Stipe-Pierson vocals.

― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, September 30, 2011 5:41 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Ahh, I'm sorry Soto, I just don't hear it - certainly not musically, anyway. To me it's always come across as a folk number with two chords in it. Lyrically, I suppose there is more depth there than the track lets on, but I just don't quite feel the backing track brings out whatever depth is there - and again, coming after 'Country Feedback', quite a lot is going to feel lightweight... maybe they should have had 'Country Feedback' as the final track... might have ended the album on a bit of a depressing note, but I honestly couldn't see what else on the album could have followed it.