New from the DFA...

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (1674 of them)

what else are you playing, ronan? i play mostly older disco and electro stuff, but with newer, dirtier things mixed in, and dfa stuff often gets the best response from the crowd. especially the john spencer remix and the gorillaz remix, to name just 2 recent-ish ones.

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 19:03 (twenty years ago)

I think that's the difference between where you guys live. Americans only really like Rock music because they think dance music is too gay and it makes them uncomfortable. DFA tracks are clearly rock. People in Erp do not have this same problem and wonder what all the racket is about.

― Elvis Cocker, Tuesday, 14 February 2006 19:13 (twenty years ago)

i do agree that there is an implicit homophobia in america's aversion to certain kinds of dance music, but to be honest, some of the other stuff i'm playing is pretty gay sounding. so i wonder where the divide is? whether we're talking about skatt brothers and "walk the night" or tiga's update of "you gonna want me", there is an undeniable gay quality to so much dance music that exists outside traditional american notions of what constitutes "gay music" (i.e., "cheesey" house, hi-nrg, etc.)

not to get too divergent.

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 19:29 (twenty years ago)

I know you guys know this stuff (do the DFA?), but it always bears repeating. "You Gonna Want Me" is an interesting example. The original is gay-ish, but still has a rocking, post-punk edge that I think makes it "OK" to many American ears. My girlfriend would still call it "gay" and tell me to play some hip-hop, however, I think hipsters would be ok with it, as long as it wasn't part of a continuous house mix.

― Elvis Chow, Tuesday, 14 February 2006 19:32 (twenty years ago)

I mainly agree with Ronan (found both the Goldfrapp and NIN remixes fairly bland) but I don't think DFA stuff has ever fit in very well with traditional club mixes--or, at least, I tried to do a mix that incorporated the "Shake Your Coconuts" remix and couldn't find a place for it. Not that I actually know what I'm talking about, of course.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 19:39 (twenty years ago)

(I think the divide lies pretty much 100% in the drums on DFA remixes, incidentally, but maybe my ears are too attuned to that.)

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 19:41 (twenty years ago)

I agree that it is definitely production nuances and not song forms that makes the difference in the way people perceive the tracks. The drums and the bass in DFA productions and remixes are almost always brutally masculine in a somehow apparent
heterosexual sounding way. This sometimes seems like it must be a conscious decision when you put their productions next to one of James Murphy's dj mixes, which often feature a lot of "gay" music.

I haven't cared much for most of the DFA mixes of more mainstream artists like NIN or N.E.R.D., mostly because they seem unwilling to engage the songs on any more interesting terms than to make a DFA version of the track. Which is exactly what they're being asked to do, of course, so it's not as if that's any big offense or surprise. It's just that when they remix pop songs, it makes me wonder to what extent there is a DFA REMIX MACHINE, because they come out, usually, sounding more or like their other remixes-- rmxs made from songs that were rarely too far from speaking the same languages as the DFA's original productions, so the lack of huge noteworthy differences seems somehow much more acceptable. It just seems like a wasted opportunity or a cashed check (and maybe that's all it is, and that's probably totally fine).

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 19:53 (twenty years ago)

I think the Goldfrapp mix is a thing of rare splendor though.

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 19:54 (twenty years ago)

Maybe I need to listen to it more.

I think you are maybe equating "masculine" with "rock" a little too much. I guarantee you a lot of my more rock-oriented friends would not view such tight disco drumming as particularly masculine (or necessarily gay, but still). The issue seems more "live" v. "electronic." Even though I know DFA drums are heavily (and masterfully) edited, there's still that little bit of swing and difference in mixing that makes them sound different even from sampled live drums.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 19:57 (twenty years ago)

Maybe you're right, but if that's the case then I genuinely can't see the distinction.

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 20:08 (twenty years ago)

I think a big thing is probably that the DFA are sort of artists in a classic sense and don't really care about making tracks to be mixed or whatever, I'm sure I'm probably addicted to "mixing music" ,by which I don't mean DJ fodder.

I mean obviously there's a huge amount of creativity within the parameters of "mixing music" which is exemplified by the range of different types of producers who make it.

I guess I wonder what the point of electronic often 4/4 remixes released on 12s is if not for playing out, but then firstworldman is probably correct that it just doesn't fit with what I play, electrohouse/minimal/lindstromandco.

While it's not that weird that DFA is still lumped in with all the above, in that it does sort of sound similar, it's still almost as if it's determined to not be club music sometimes.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:08 (twenty years ago)

The issue seems more "live" v. "electronic."

Some have likened that same binary to straight v. gay - not that they're identical, but that many of the same prejudices against "electronic" appear in the discomfort that many people have with homosexuals. I know this is ILM 101, but refreshers are often valuable.

― Elvis Cocker, Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:11 (twenty years ago)

actually eppy, i'd say it has less to do with the swing and much more to do with sonics - plenty of "programmed" techno these days is rife with ripples and unstable rhythms that mimic "real" playing, but i think it's the synthetic quality of the sounds themselves that likely turns off US listeners. meanwhile, DFA has big, rocking, muscular drum sounds, so that even if you cut'em perfectly square -- well, that's what queen did with "we will rock you," and that was essentially disco that appealed to the rawk crowd. (i'm not even gonna mention the obvious sexual-identity conundrums that raises.)

― philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:15 (twenty years ago)

or another one bites the dust

― Dominique (dleone), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:17 (twenty years ago)

ronan, i think that's exactly the issue, is that it is sort of in a genre limbo. for what it's worth, i have often been accused of exclusively liking unmixable records, and while i don't think that's true... a lot of my favorite records seem to want to follow exactly the wrong preceding tune, or the wrong following one.

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:18 (twenty years ago)

OK, but I don't think the issue here is with the whole range of things that "gay" represents when you map it to "electronic," because DFA remixes have most of those elements. It's just that their drums sound as if they represent a recording of a performance rather than sequenced live samples or electronically-created sounds. (Even though they are sequenced, and they are sorta electronically created; honestly I think the difference lies more in the processing than the generating or arrangement, but since I couldn't actually tell you what that processing is, I am of little help.)

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:18 (twenty years ago)

DFA drums are not big and muscular! They're kind of thin against "real" rock drums actually.

The more we discuss the more convinced I become that the difference is basically that DFA drums have a room sound and that your standard-issue dance music drum sound doesn't.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:19 (twenty years ago)

(They're even thin against say a Girls Aloud beat!)

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:20 (twenty years ago)

yeah DFA drums are typically pretty tinny. In fact, I think the only DFA band who doesn't use tinny drums is Black Dice. But LCDS records anyway definitely sound "live".

― Dominique (dleone), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:21 (twenty years ago)

It's like liking Can vs liking Kraftwerk

― Dominique (dleone), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:22 (twenty years ago)

And it's not like the DFA has exactly been getting a hell of a lot of airplay in the US anyway. If anything, the drums you're most likely to hear on US radio are the thin, electronic beats and big kick drums of an R&B or hip-hop production.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:23 (twenty years ago)

I don't think the issue here is with the whole range of things that "gay" represents when you map it to "electronic," because DFA remixes have most of those elements. It's just that their drums sound as if they represent a recording of a performance rather than sequenced live samples or electronically-created sounds.

Eppy, it's a long trip down the theory rabbit hole that you might not have much interest in taking, but the privileging of the sound of a "performance" rather than things electronically mediated (especially in supposedly "dance" music) are in fact part of this "gay"/"straight" aesthetic binary.

― Elvis Cocker, Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:25 (twenty years ago)

countdown to the r-word

― Dominique (dleone), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:27 (twenty years ago)

xpost So the DFA are bisexual because they have gay keyboards and straight drums?

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:28 (twenty years ago)

The r-word is always already a part of every ILM thread (every post even).

― Elvis Cocker, Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:29 (twenty years ago)

DFA are the biggest reason that I got into "mixable" music in the first place.

i'm a total sucker for any DFA remix, and probably the biggest James Murphy apologist you'll ever meet.

gay/ straight, live/ sampled, rock/ dance.... whatever. the unifying theme is that they set out to be a bridge between those two worlds and have (for the most part) succeeded. and i think that is awesome. no, they're not re-inventing the wheel, and yes they tend to trample over the original when doing a remix, but damn it if the ends don't justify the means.

that gorillaz remix (or half a dozen others) is a sure-fire floor-filler for me every time. and i'm usually playing to crowds that are 50/50 dance/rock.

― grady (grady), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:51 (twenty years ago)

Totally dude. Whatever to all this signifyin'. Jams Murphy is a bro.

― Elvis Cocker, Tuesday, 14 February 2006 21:55 (twenty years ago)

Ronan plz check out the Goldfrapp mix, it's awesome.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 00:43 (twenty years ago)

made my month when i was able to snag one of the limited 100 12's of this for less than $20 in December.

― grady (grady), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 00:46 (twenty years ago)

I can't wait to hear this:

04. Colours - Hot Chip

I have been so into the Over and Over/Breakdown 12" the last month or so.

― T/S: Pinks/Oki Dog/Scoobys/Tail o' the Pup (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 01:01 (twenty years ago)

I would've thought ronan would be all over that goldfrapp mix (if he's heard it that is), it's like a more propulsive take on the space disco thing.

this is a totally ridiculous notion. james murphy's a drummer so they can record their own drum sounds. how on earth is using the tools at your disposal 'privileging the sound of a "performance"'??

― wu-tang clan analogue (haitch), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 01:09 (twenty years ago)

i am confused here: is the question whether music is made by man or machine part of the debate regarding what makes music gay or straight. cause murphy is like the gayest drummer ever. we have to tape the sticks to his hands, he is so limp. anyway, this is all too heady for me. we all have a little gay man inside us.

― GALKIN (GALKIN), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 01:13 (twenty years ago)

dude, don't ask, it's a long trip down the theory rabbit hole.

― midi sanskrit (sanskrit), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 01:13 (twenty years ago)

why does gay people not like to drum?

― wu-tang clan analogue (haitch), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 01:19 (twenty years ago)

Get one essay:
http://amy.music.udel.edu/faculty/moconnor/MUSC107/Readings/In%20the%20Empire%20of%20the%20Beat.pdf

― Elvis Cocker, Wednesday, 15 February 2006 01:29 (twenty years ago)

That's from the early 90s.

― Elvis Cocker, Wednesday, 15 February 2006 01:30 (twenty years ago)

firstworldman way xpost....I think on one hand, stuff like Walk The Night, though obviously gay to many people, it also ROCKS in a very rock-n-roll manner, power chord guitars and such. I think that's what makes it work so well in america these days. Also, uber-gay stuff of this type works in the typical hipster ironic sense, in a way that other "gay" music that might be gay in a different way, and maybe not rock as much, may not work.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 03:29 (twenty years ago)

I seriously don't get the whole "DFA isn't dancefloor material" thing. Tunes like "Beat Connection", "House of Jealous Lovers", "Yeah", the Gorillaz Remix, "Tito's Way", "Tribulations" etc have been some of the biggest dancefloor bombs of the past few years. I get fantastic crowd reactions from these records! Currently I'm obsessed with the Hot Chip "Just Like We (Breakdown)" remix that came out last year.

Yes, DFA, I am in fact available for street team work. ;)

― jeffery (jeffery), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 04:20 (twenty years ago)

that dfa hot chip remix is TIGHT

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 04:45 (twenty years ago)

All the ones Jeffrey says I agree with, except maybe the original "Tribulations" and probably the original "Tito's Way" too.

It's mainly the remixes I meant. I have the Goldfrapp one but it just kind of passed me by. Maybe I ought to listen again.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 11:15 (twenty years ago)

haha me too!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 17:46 (twenty years ago)

So anybody got any word on when the Delia and Gavin with the Carl Craig remix of Revelee is to be released?

― matt2 (matt2), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 16:30 (twenty years ago)

i haven't checked it out yet, but ourdisco has a live delia + gavin set available for download:

http://www.ourdisco.com/music/

― rajeev (rajeev), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 16:44 (twenty years ago)

I am waiting for the Carl Craig remix of Revelee by D+G too. From what I heard some time in march is when they are releasing it. It is next to impossible to get it otherwise. I know of maybe 3 or 4 guys who have it.

― admiralfrogpants, Wednesday, 1 March 2006 15:10 (twenty years ago)

i heard this on beats in space and then heard tim sweeny spin it live a few nights later. its fucking sick. he played the DFA remix too, which was pretty good as well. i think he said its coming out with a third remix and the OG version in a 2x12" pack just like the black dice and juan maclean ones. anyone know who the third remixer is?

― grady (grady), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 15:42 (twenty years ago)

Delia Gonzalez & Gavin Russom will release the single "Relevee", taken from their debut full length album "The Days Of Mars", in May 2006. The single will be released as a 2x12" and enhanced CD/EP. Their will be remixes from Carl Craig, the DFA and Baby Ford, as well as an alternate version of Relevee not used on the album. There is also a full length video being made by fine artist Assume Vivis Astro Focus in collaboration with Delia and Gavin.

― telephone thing, Wednesday, 1 March 2006 15:58 (twenty years ago)

radical.

who's baby ford?

― grady (grady), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 20:45 (twenty years ago)

Baby Ford! Dan and I can't be the only fans

― sleeve (sleeve), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 21:20 (twenty years ago)

Damn straight.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 21:22 (twenty years ago)

so fucking psyched to see DFA signing up baby ford for a remix - dude is waaay underappreciated. and oddly the pairing makes quite a bit of sense, i think. can't wait to hear that.

― philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 21:30 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 1574 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.