JAZZ IS LIKE HEROIN TO ME ! ! ! ~~~~ ILM POST-1945 JAZZ ALBUMS POLL - THE RESULTS COUNTDOWN (now counting top 25!)

HEADHUNTERS ALSO SUCKS

Does that count as a hat?

winston you suck for saying that

It's something like my 10th favourite Herbie album. I even prefer some of his disco albums.

yes but not a spiritual one.

Good question, emil.y. I'm not sure.

lots of jazz artists played w/ lots of jazz artists. jaki byard played with mingus & he has no records here. milt jackson. anyone in MJQ. Oscar Peterson

dainger's list would be pretty short if u took the pre-45 peak artists out of it, as has been noted

im pretty damn sure the proposed pre-45 jazz tracks poll will take care of a lot of this (if someone runs it)

sun ra played with fletcher henderson and coleman hawkins, sanders and alice played with coltrane

it's hardly songs in the key of z

― zvookster, Friday, September 2, 2011 1:27 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

like if u cant see how sun ra might be perceived as an outsider artist ... dude was clearly on his own planet when it came to presentation & music. I mean, do u really think ppl are voting for 10 of his records bcuz of his fletcher henderson bona fides

dainger's list would be pretty short if u took the pre-45 peak artists out of it, as has been noted

― zvookster, Friday, September 2, 2011 1:31 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

want me to list more?

I'm not a fan of Headhunters. I mentioned it in the Outloud room one night and it was universally agreed that this made me a bad person.

its a HEAD not a hat.

this countdown should really be done with a soundtrack playing in the http://outloud.fm/ILXORS

(come join)

milt jackson.

wait Milt Jackson hasn't placed anything on here!? FUCK THIS SHIT

I am very partial to jazz vibraphone players fyi

I don't have a problem with classing Ra as an outsider - it's pretty clear that's what he was - but he was nonetheless rooted in the jazz tradition and I love love love so many of his records I feel like his showing here is about right, if maybe a little overstated

guess I should have voted for Very Tall. Or Bags & Trane. BAH

i think that if you did a similar poll in like 1980 Ra would be significantly decreased, that over time, stuff that varies more widely from the 'jazz mean' gets more attention

Maybe, but much of the Sun Ra that has been widely available since like the mid-to-early-90s was not widely available in 1980.

some of this stuff is like arguing that kool keith is one of the 90s most important rappers

lol i've been holding my tongue on making this exact comparison

observing that there is a noticeable interest in weirdos / sci fi costuming / spiritual jazz, jazz harpists, jazz fusion, etc. at the expense of artists like say johnny griffin or clifford brown

You keep making the same mistake, focusing on the extramusical and creating plain false dichotomies. Also, I love Clifford Brown but am not aware of any amazing album that he made as a solo artist. Maybe you should make your own list of 'proper' jazz instead of constantly offending the intellect of everyone involved with this.

yeah def reissue culture gave his stature a huge boost xxp

(Wait that was supposed to be early-to-mid-90s, haha. Time warp.)

11    Hank Mobley - Soul Station (1960) 2737 Points, 17 votes, One #1 
http://img.blogs.yahoo.co.jp/ybi/1/16/b1/akagi0727/folder/591241/img_591241_42488764_0?1261893088
http://open.spotify.com/album/731OW49heGHCMrMOREHYlY

You keep making the same mistake, focusing on the extramusical and creating plain false dichotomies. Also, I love Clifford Brown but am not aware of any amazing album that he made as a solo artist. Maybe you should make your own list of 'proper' jazz instead of constantly offending the intellect of everyone involved with this.

― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Friday, September 2, 2011 1:44 PM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

actually im accusing others of focusing on the 'extramusical'

and yes clifford brown does have good solo records. a number of them

"Dinah Jams" is another record I would love to have seen

And if you have not heard Soul Station go buy it now

actually im accusing others of focusing on the 'extramusical'

yeah this is where I call bullshit

in addition to reissue culture, non-jazz artists getting into Ra increased his stature, bcuz he was an iconoclast, which probably appeals once the jazz narrative has been largely reduced to the care of archivists & librarians

D-40, really? That's very interesting. How did you reach this conclusion?

yeah this is where I call bullshit

― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, September 2, 2011 1:46 PM (13 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

im not saying this records arent good, but there are certainly some uncritiqued biases going on in these results

D-40, really? That's very interesting. How did you reach this conclusion?

― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Friday, September 2, 2011 1:47 PM (14 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ive spent an entire thread explaining myself?

weirdos / sci fi costuming / spiritual jazz, jazz harpists, jazz fusion

like, there is actual music associated with this stuff. the sci-fi thing w/Sun Ra goes way deeper than costuming, as I'm sure you're aware. and I think you should take people at their word when they say they like a jazz harp record for the MUSIC on the record and not because of some hidden aesthetic agenda to specifically privelege harpists over saxophonists or something like that.

xp

You haven't, though. How did you reach the conclusion that people necessarily like Pharoah and Sun Ra and Alice because of their extramusical connotations? You're the one focusing on that.

btw so far in the top 100 Sun Ra has a massive 2 entries.

interesting that (along with ahmad jamal) there's no modern jazz quartet here, either (right?). from what i understand, they were one of the biggest acts of the time, but they're stature has gone down considerably. i suppose it's arguable that they were too straight ahead, not iconoclastic enough, no spiritual hats (though they did cover ornette!). great records however.

I kind of hate the way the most interesting music seems to be discarded precisely for its quality of being interesting. It just sounds exactly the same to me as the anti-intellectual bullshit spouted on the 'overrated literary works' thread.

and stop ignoring hank mobley!

You haven't, though. How did you reach the conclusion that people necessarily like Pharoah and Sun Ra and Alice because of their extramusical connotations? You're the one focusing on that.

― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Friday, September 2, 2011 1:48 PM (23 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

actually, you're the one who brought that up oh defensive one

btw so far in the top 100 Sun Ra has a massive 2 entries.

― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, September 2, 2011

lol

it's impossible to untangle musical vs extramusical qualities w/r/t one's picks here. deej is right to point out that the list veers more towards weirdo spiritual hat jazz than a traditional best of jazz list does. don't know why everyone keeps acting like it doesn't, argues with him, rather than just owning your preferences and sensibilities.

I kind of hate the way the most interesting music seems to be discarded precisely for its quality of being interesting. It just sounds exactly the same to me as the anti-intellectual bullshit spouted on the 'overrated literary works' thread.

― emil.y, Friday, September 2, 2011 1:49 PM (21 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is totally misunderstanding. the thing is that its NOT more interesting, or its more interesting only in the most superficial senses. i mean, are you arguing then that MJQ are ~not~ interesting bcuz they were 'straight ahead jazz' or that there might not be value in the variations present w/in jazz that doesnt go in for extravagant costuming, unusual instruments or, say, funky hard bop sound rather than a hyperspiritual vision quest

btw so far in the top 100 Sun Ra has a massive 2 entries.

― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Friday, September 2, 2011

lol

― zvookster, Friday, September 2, 2011 1:50 PM (55 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

and in the 250 he has far more than his stature in the jazz world

and stop ignoring hank mobley!

I admit I don't remember anything about Soul Station atm :(

then go listen!

and in the 250 he has far more than his stature in the jazz world

would think that at some point you would stop appealing to the semi-mythical external "world" that always happens to validate your opinions

you do this a lot

sigh

har, tbh, find me two jazz critics in the jazz world who agree on anything ...