JAZZ IS LIKE HEROIN TO ME ! ! ! ~~~~ ILM POST-1945 JAZZ ALBUMS POLL - THE RESULTS COUNTDOWN (now counting top 25!)

just to be clear here - deej's position is that Crouch and Kahn's public opinions about A Love Supreme have no bearing on the jazz canon, as they both have conflicts of interest/economic/professional incentives to promote it. Also we should take deej's word for it that tons of other jazz critics (presumably totally impartial ones with no conflicts of interest) don't rate ALS very highly.

xp

glad that's settled
xp

I have also been reading about jazz since I was a teenager btw

There's quite a few albums in the top 50 I don't know or have only heard once, but I don't think I've hated any of the ones I've heard that made it. Maybe one day I'll get into vocal jazz?

in fact deej said everyone knew it was "one of his lesser albums" backing up his "vocal mantras" "smh @ rock dudes" "nowhere near among his best" opinions, read any jazz crit etc.

classic backpedal.gif

btw this is also an amazing book about 'outsider' jazz (lol starts with Coltrane tho) - well at least the first 2/3rds of it anyway

i sort of get and don't get your objection to sun ra, deej

i mean, for every moog spacheship suite he incorporated some pretty traditional jazz on his records. vocal jazz, too. i know he is critically ensconced because white people love outer space but i think in listening to his records people can be clued in to the wider tradition.

I didn't listen to jazz until i was like 23 and never read about it bar one big book in the library that recommended lots of it (from bebop to fusion inc free)

Just to be clear, shakey is putting words in my mouth

Maybe one day I'll get into vocal jazz?

aw what?! Betty Carter! that Byrd album! I repped for Blossom Dearie too but nobody cared

xp

Just to be clear, shakey is putting words in my mouth

it's so big, looked like there was room

Zvookster what trane albums have u heard

i've read Alyn Shipton's A New History of Jazz, which is not thrilling prose but is really good, i recommend it

deej, giant steps favorite things blue train a love supreme and live at the village vangaurd again

oh i can listen to that kind of stuff fine, but i've never got into the big jazz singers

can't wait for love supreme to be #1 in this poll

that is of course irrelevant xxp

Has anyone actually linked to any jazz critics saying supreme is his best record

And for what its worth citing crouch is lol at one level bcuz hes a total jazz crit contrarian!

can't wait for love supreme to be #1 in this poll

lol

I kinda don't expect it to be tho

just show me this canon!

guessing that deej's impression of jazz critical consensus is inside of books which are not archived forever on the internet

let me know if i'm wrong about that

i think the reason people are jumping on deej is because he spoke about a canon that he refers to but wont show a link to it when asked rather than for disagreeing with his point of view. If it was just that i'm sure there would be less clowning.
xps

nothing wrong with listing books

anyway sketches of spain is a pretty fucking cool record, right

deep dark marches

Has anyone actually linked to any jazz critics saying supreme is his best record

And for what its worth citing crouch is lol at one level bcuz hes a total jazz crit contrarian!

― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 21:40 (27 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

"no one has cited this except one guy who doesnt count" and you havent provided any critics who work towards YR point

just quit already dude

the issue was not "is it coltrane's best", it was if deej's "smh @ vocal mantras" was backed up by jazz dudes like he said

i <3 sketches of spain

smh @ castanets

Yes, but castanets played by Elvin Jones!

deej has been a manifesto in search of a subject since post one, railing against "rock dudes" when things turned up with 6 votes

basically it's my memory of jazz crit vs. deej's (I don't keep my crit library at work). Wilmer, Crouch, and Kahn all love ALS, dunno if they would call it "his best" but I think they would disagree with deej that no case could be made for it. When people write entire books about an album - even setting marketing reasons aside - they're implicitly acknowledging its value and priveleging it over other albums. I don't think anyone's written any books about "Crescent", for ex, even if it is cited as the clear template for ALS.

xp

still laughing at "smh @ vocal mantras" but surely it would be better directed at om

hey now dont slag Om!

basically it's my memory of jazz crit vs. deej's (I don't keep my crit library at work). Wilmer, Crouch, and Kahn all love ALS, dunno if they would call it "his best" but I think they would disagree with deej that no case could be made for it. When people write entire books about an album - even setting marketing reasons aside - they're implicitly acknowledging its value and priveleging it over other albums. I don't think anyone's written any books about "Crescent", for ex, even if it is cited as the clear template for ALS.

xp

― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, September 1, 2011 3:47 PM (5 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

because there is an audience for these records that there arent for other jazz canon LPs. a love supreme sold better than any other record he released

'smh @ vocal mantras' is making fun of the ~values of rock dudes~ not actually dissing 'a love supreme' which is fwiw an awesome record

like, of course crouch never wrote a piece called 'smh @ jazz mantras' -- his enemies are 'jazz that is too free' and 'jazz that doesnt swing,' not 'record collector rock dudes' (my enemies) per se

still laughing at "smh @ vocal mantras" but surely it would be better directed at om

lol

deej do "rock dudes" love Om?

'record collector rock dudes' (my enemies)

what are you doing here

tilting at windmills etc

What is wrong with 'record collector rock dudes'? :( isn't that what a lot of us are?
And is a 'record collector rap dude' as bad as a rock one? i.e. you hate all record collectors?

hey now dont slag Om!

not even! love that record! listen to it and think "oh my god it's full of stars," etc.!

What is wrong with 'record collector rock dudes'? :( isn't that what a lot of us are?
And is a 'record collector rap dude' as bad as a rock one? i.e. you hate all record collectors?

gonna go out on a limb here and say the real issue is deej hates himself and projects his rage onto others in order to distinguish himself from those like him

aww man no need to get personal in this thread

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTn0XPDTFOEyEx2F2JSEoFC3DInuCNqJ6UhthOuGW-8ntSl5OeF

im enjoying the actual discussion though

urgh yeah sorry that was uncalled for

aaaaaanyway back to the records! I have never really liked Sketches of Spain fwiw.

hey i've got a psych degree and i say deej has a high degree of need to feel superior to others ok let's talk about how awesome sketches of spain is now
xp hahaha

38    Ornette Coleman - Free Jazz (1960) 1520 Points, 13 votes
http://991.com/newGallery/Ornette-Coleman-Free-Jazz-459655.jpg
http://open.spotify.com/album/7zE4RadAWa8lYSvAZkGtFw

ha, never been into that one. a buncha noise! well, not really, but it sounds pretty messy to me.

I voted for it!

I remember the first time I tried to listen to this album at work. lolz

it's good, it's a landmark, but I've got to be in the right mood for it and the intensity/non-stop aggro-ness

a fair placing then you would say?