JAZZ IS LIKE HEROIN TO ME ! ! ! ~~~~ ILM POST-1945 JAZZ ALBUMS POLL - THE RESULTS COUNTDOWN (now counting top 25!)

ok this blue cover book is a+ but what i really want to mention is how many make me want to laugh. albums covers should be funnier/funner more often.

also i definitely don't think that deej is having a jazz vs. not jazz argument; he's just annoyed at the records that are critically enshrined by the rock dudes, which are enshrined for sort of arbitrary reasons also ("spiritual," "sounds like rock sort of") and direct attention away from records that are instrumental in defining the actual sound and feel and culture of jazz (which is also sort of a hard thing to pin down but deej definitely has something in mind)

42    Alice Coltrane - Ptah The El Daoud (1970) 1447 Points, 13 votes
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2IjE77e29wQ/SQEZCwNvPWI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/SxvinJz6NjQ/s400/61GjcWK%252BPKL__SS500_.jpg
http://open.spotify.com/album/62RMymUs9Cb4rDqYqXfTCf

maybe what puts me off w/ that line of thinking is- i don't think of rock as "spiritual" or "transcendent" or whatever, most of the time, unless it incorporates other genres like jazz or classical strings etc.

i definitely wasn't conflating the two. still trying to figure out in my head why rock crits got so attracted to the spiritual beat but i have a feeling it has something to do with some sort of racism

being atypical in the rock world tends to get you more notice than doing what's been done before (or a slight variation of that) extremely awesomely.

oh no not the 'r' word!!!

lol bradnelson

agharta isn't jazz though

being atypical in the rock world tends to get you more notice than doing what's been done before (or a slight variation of that) extremely awesomely.

This can also be a matter of having trouble making more subtle distinctions between works in a relatively unfamiliar genre. It's definitely easier to see the really divergent stuff rather than seeing why someone in a tradition is doing something considered better than others equally grounded in the tradition. (I am inadvertently supporting deej here, I think.)

41    John Coltrane - interstellar Space (1967) 1461 Points, 15 votes
http://jazzismylife.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/cover49.jpg
http://open.spotify.com/album/4t43Wkg1efBwey0Y5GPyEy

^^^^my jam.

sam talks about his book some more pt 6: stanley turrentine sure can pull a face.

oh hey that's a good coltrane record right there

rashied ali for president

(And the religion angle of rock critics might partly be related to the whole Christgau type emphasis on social significance.)

that's not specific to rock at all

i haven't heard interstellar space yet (same goes for a lot of the post- classic quintet stuff) -- i'm kinda saving up. I gorged on Coltrane records a few years back and didn't want to run out! maybe now's the time, though.

40    Donald Byrd - A New Perspective (1963) 1481 Points, 12 votes
https://www.ifmusic.co.uk/images/product_images/donaldbyrdnewperspective.jpg
http://open.spotify.com/album/3LG1c3DYgaEtCxea2z7ZSa

Interstellar Space is definitely the place to start for late-period Coltrane and, I'd argue, one of the key documents of 20th century music.

xp

I went backwards to the Byrd stuff from his 70s funk albums, but I found I really liked a lot of that era too and this was definitely my favourite of the albums.

Zvookster its not specific to rock but how it Is about social significance can vary genre to genre

That byrd seems a bit high to me but I do dig that album. Byrd had a great pop ear

idk, stanley crouch, richard cook, brian morton, downbeat, ashley kahn etc. still being called rock dudes itt

various critics bailed on coltrane at various points along his journey i'm sure but where is this jazz canon of non-rock dudes who all put down a love supreme?

will now officially complain that A New Perspective is TOO LOW!

re: Agharta/Pangea - the thing that got me into those records, oddly enough, was some random Motorbooty piece that described them as Miles "with his finger on the g-spot of mother earth". that description has always stuck with me.

xp

http://www.downbeat.com/default.asp?sect=stories&subsect=story_detail&sid=773 xp

Miscellaneous Instrument: Roland Kirk-Manzello & Stritch

*sigh*

Sounds like a ventriloquist act: "The amazing Roland Kirk-Manzello, and his pal Stritch!"

Zvookster your confusing "likes a love supreme" with "thinks a love supreme is tranes best." Crouch is invested in a project of deifying coltrane so hearing him say a negative thing abt "a love supreme" would run counter to his overall project

Don't you think the reason khan wrote a book on "supreme" vs the others might be related to which book there was a market for

Khannnnnnnnnn!

crouch hates late coltrane fwiw, thinks the dude lost the plot post-classic quintet.

just show me this canon! how hard can it be? cause it looks like it doesn't exist on the evidence xxp

Crouch is invested in a project of deifying coltrane so hearing him say a negative thing abt "a love supreme" would run counter to his overall project

Crouch saying something negative about Coltrane's post-1965 output would also run counter to that project, but I'm pretty sure Crouch has done so at least seven times just in the last hour.

deej's world of jazz people

Yes he thinks trane fell off but that doesn't contradict what I said??

"show me this canon" ? Wtf is wrong with you

http://www.swotti.com/tmp/swotti/cacheCGV0ZXIGY3JVDWNOUGVVCGXLLVBLB3BSZQ==/imgPeter%20Crouch3.jpg

Granny daingers world of shitty opinions

deejs world of made up opinions

why you so aggro dude, go lie outside, it's beautiful out you herb

the jazz canon usually puts 'a love supreme' down as one of his lesser albums from the era that got considerably more attention from folks outside of the jazz world

― D-40, Thursday, September 1, 2011

39    Miles Davis - Sketches Of Spain (1960) 1493 Points, 12 votes
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cLI19EXK2oU/S_l037yAgEI/AAAAAAAAAoE/N-FpD2kNNR0/s1600/1216728063031_f.jpg
http://open.spotify.com/album/56WqCnM5giX57Jr3aAN2aK

about right

maybe the best miles album imo

Will be taking it down to #31 tonight. Originally was going to try take it down further and do the top 20 friday but i doubt we will have time.
If there's lots of posts when we get to 31 i could continue but no point if no-ones around.

It will finish friday though

I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to do the requisite research w citations to prove that "a love supreme" isn't seen as tranes best album by all jazz critics, unfortunately it takes more work than the wikipedia search you dudes did to prove it is acclaimed, but I've been reading about jazz since I was a teenager and have a decent grasp of the nature of jazz discourse thanks

hahaha

hey, i just want to say, no matter how inevitable the results are, i've seen at least three people on this thread listen to grant green for the first time because of this poll

Sam it's funny you say that, It's one of the earliest Miles cd's i bought and never got into it and i just found loads more I did. I will get back to it.

infact i'll spotify it now (i have that miles complete columbia box set but my cd players gone a bit weird and dont wanna scratch anything)

what i'm trying to say is

everyday is a winding road

i've seen at least three people on this thread listen to grant green for the first time because of this poll

warms the cockles of my heart

just to be clear here - deej's position is that Crouch and Kahn's public opinions about A Love Supreme have no bearing on the jazz canon, as they both have conflicts of interest/economic/professional incentives to promote it. Also we should take deej's word for it that tons of other jazz critics (presumably totally impartial ones with no conflicts of interest) don't rate ALS very highly.

xp