JAZZ IS LIKE HEROIN TO ME ! ! ! ~~~~ ILM POST-1945 JAZZ ALBUMS POLL - THE RESULTS COUNTDOWN (now counting top 25!)

Here is the Rate Your Music top jazz albums.

#8 proves ilm was right after all. Apologies to wm for not including it at first

you dont like freddie??

― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:54 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark

He never really did it for me, and I could never put my finger on why. Then I heard one of his contemporaries say, "Freddie's playing is like the Rolls-Royce aesthetic, but without the Rolls-Royce." That nailed it for me (although as I read it, I can see how it might be a little obtuse...)

48    Miles Davis - Steamin' with the Miles Davis Quintet ( 1961) 1251 Points, 10 votes
http://milesdavisonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/steamin.jpg
http://open.spotify.com/album/0Q0bftWuBSwZAHBKZr0lxB

I hope Alice's harp jazz albums score high - even if harps aren't REAL instruments, because people with vaginas most frequently play them. CLEARLY.

47    John Coltrane - Africa/Brass (1961) 1262 Points, 13 votes
http://revivalist.okayplayer.com/core/wp-content/uploads/africa-brass-cover.jpeg
http://open.spotify.com/album/5Eiyfggt1rHUJaKoiD6ZBU

I remember tylerw once directed me to an awesome performance of this, feat. Alice. :D

all of those "...with the Miles Davis Quintet" albums run together in my head. they're all pretty good, but none of them stand out from the others. looking at that cover, don't even think i've ever heard Steamin'.

that reminds me i forgot to respond to this -

Artist count so far -
Charles Mingus - 5
Grant Green - 5
Archie Shepp - 6
Thelonious Monk - 6
Herbie Hancock - 6
Pharoah Sanders - 7
Sun Ra - 10
John Coltrane - 15 (plus on other albums)
Miles Davis - 21

I've nothing against Miles, but this is kinda ridiculous; it seems pretty much every one of his 50s, 60s, and 70s albums will place in the poll. Can't imagine any other major genre where one artist would eclipse all the others so strongly... Whenever I go to the jazz shelf in a general record store (i.e. one that doesn't specialize in jazz), it looks like half the records on the shelf are various Miles reissues and compilations.

― Tuomas, Thursday, 1 September 2011 07:29 (12 hours ago

Tuomas , please remember that it's a 250. It is also hardly surprising that 21 miles albums would get in so far (more since the countdown resumed after you posted that. it would be wrong if some of the greatest jazz albums ever didn't place just because one guy is responsible. Miles and Coltrane have huge awesome discographies, in miles case it spanned like 5 decades?, it also means a lot of different people have their own favourites.

And at the end of the day this is a poll of ilxors favourite jazz albums, and if that includes 20 miles or every hancock/mingus/hubbard etc or even zappa's jazz albums then that will be reflected in the poll.

or in short, it's an ILM poll.

Or in short, it shouldn't be that shocking to enter the classical section of the record store and find that there's MANY RECORDINGS OF MOZART.

well of course shops will sell what is the biggest sellers. They're not a library.
A really good specialist shop should stock back catalog but many don't due to lack of money. A big store only sells the big sellers and it's no wonder people dont go there when they dont cater for them.

I just think being shocked that people REALLY like 20 Miles Davis records is similar to being shocked that people REALLY like 20 Mozart symphonies.

i mean, that's fine, your opinion! i pretty much love everything coltrane did 1960-65, so love supreme fits in there -- it's fantastic. but it's just part of an incredible period for that band.

― tylerw, Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:01 PM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

fwiw i wasnt arguing with you & basically agree w/ your post more or less, i was responding specifically to shakey

46    Ornette Coleman - This Is Our Music (1961) 1343 Points, 12 votes
http://991.com/newGallery/Ornette-Coleman-This-Is-Our-Music-447970.jpg
http://open.spotify.com/album/5dx51fo9eKRUo0GyZSKaxy

It doesn't take a background in jazz to see that deej's logic is not just flawed but nonexistent. First you say that the album is considered by proper jazz heads to be a lesser work, and then when people point out contradictory instances you a) say that they're misreading you, and b) refuse to point to anyone who actually says it is a lesser work.

― emil.y, Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:06 PM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

im looking for examples but havent seen any, but then, there isn't much jazz crit online (plenty of forum discussions about whether the LP is overrated, though); i dont think it takes much work to see that the kinds of venues praising the record are the kinds that generally treat jazz as a sideshow anyway.

Ole! Speak No Evil! Africa Brass! This Is Our Music! What the top 10 should look like! Bet next we'll have Journeys In Saub;uigbfq;eh; and The Shape of Jazz to Come if this is how its going down.

xp It doesn't take much work, yet you haven't been able to find examples. Interesting.

A Love Supreme is awes, Kind Of Blue... isn't the best Miles by a long shot imo. Bet In A Silent Way wins this poll anyway.

xp It doesn't take much work, yet you haven't been able to find examples. Interesting.

― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:53 PM (2 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

? penguin guide and rolling stone? you provided the examples already, thats what im saying

A Love Supreme is awes, Kind Of Blue... isn't the best Miles by a long shot imo. Bet In A Silent Way wins this poll anyway.

― gay socialists smoking mushrooms with their illegal gardeners (a hoy hoy), Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:53 PM (6 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

backwards

this is rock fan rewriting

minimalizing of JAZZ VALUES

im sorry if you guys wanted to make this abt me, or accuse me of being a 'wannabe critic' -- im just responding honestly to what I see as the ANTI JAZZ BIAS of the jazz poll

deej you think we have an anti-jazz bias? this is coming from what exactly? that canon records may do well?

http://www.downbeat.com/default.asp?sect=cpollindex

xp Dude, you don't even qualify as a wanna-be critic. You're just stirring shit with clearly uninformed ~~~~controversial opinions~~~~ because you want to pick a fight instead of actually conversing about something, just like you do in, oh, *every other thread*.

I wanna know where I stand in yr line of thinking deej. How is my fusion allergy related to an anti-jazz bias?

i dont get the anti-jazz bias things at all. jazz is obviously a broad church encompassing lots of different styles. most of these styles have been represented. A lot of posters are into the different styles too. i don't see what is wrong with that? (yes i'm one who likes lots of styles)

Also 'classic' jazz from the 50s and 60s has been very well represented in this poll so far.

xp Dude, you don't even qualify as a wanna-be critic. You're just stirring shit with clearly uninformed ~~~~controversial opinions~~~~ because you want to pick a fight instead of actually conversing about something, just like you do in, oh, *every other thread*.

― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:57 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

'clearly uninformed'

For comparison purposes, I looked for some polls on a jazz message board to see what kind of stuff wins over there, but you can't see the poll results unless you voted in them: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/20189-favorite-1965-john-coltrane-quartet-album/

c&P them please?

About the putative jazz vs not-jazz distinction: what did key players such as Miles and Coltrane think at the time? Did they see projects like Bitches Brew or Ascension as extending the tradition or breaking from it completely?

And now for yet another fusion album that didn't make the top 20..

45 Miles Davis - Get Up With It (1974) 1350 Points, 12 votes
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Yy_Cx-IaoyA/S8TFI4X0wBI/AAAAAAAAAMI/O2r9dQ2iITg/s1600/miles-davis-he-loved-him-madly-1974.jpg
http://open.spotify.com/album/0CFS3jvFwutIt5ewGIa7Sq

? penguin guide and rolling stone? you provided the examples already, thats what im saying

Stanley Crouch and Ashley Kahn are not rock critics fwiw. I would even go so far as to call them pre-eminent critics in their chosen fields, but that's just me.

xp

c&P them please?

Shorter answer: You can still read the comments even if you can't see the results.

xp D-40, familiarity doesn't mean knowledge. You failed to explain how "harp jazz" (which, lol, is an ignorant reductionist term) & "outsider" jazz didn't constitute Real Jazz Worthy of Acclaim (you called the latter "straight jazz" iirc haha), for one thing. And maybe if you just accepted that your hierarchy is just as arbitrary as anyone else's, no one would mind. But you don't. :(

listening to Grant Green's Street of Dreams for the first time and ~~vibing~~ hard

Miles' glasses on that cover crack me up

xp

Who's the vibes player on that, a hoy hoy, Bobby Hutcherson?

those glasses are totally anti jazz

I didn't say they weren't real jazz worthy of acclaim

"He Loved Him Madly" floors me every single time.

Did they see projects like Bitches Brew or Ascension as extending the tradition or breaking from it completely?

this is an interesting point - it's been a long time since I read any Coltrane bios. Miles didn't give a fuck about genre labels by the time he went electric afaict

Who's the vibes player on that, a hoy hoy, Bobby Hutcherson?

― Hipster Shake Boogie (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:10 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yup. <3

Money Jungle liner notes btw make mention of Mingus's autobiog and i've never thought about reading up on muh jazz heroes and now kinda wanna go book buying crazy. any recommended reads?

Its real jazz worthy of acclaim that also happens to be a cornerstone of the hipster jazz record collector continuum that imo overvalues a certain kind of jazz record ... Saying kob is overrated but a love supreme is coltranes greatest accomplishment is a symptom of this thinking. obv my framing here can be construed as picking a fight or w/e but I think its a fair sitting of the biases that result in so many sun ra, fusion and spiritual hat records making the list

I really like the miles bio "round about midnight" and think its a really slept on read.

any recommended reads?

any recommended reads?

http://cache3.bookdepository.co.uk/assets/images/book/small/9780/3068/9780306808555.jpg

If you want to learn about jazz steer clear of the Mingus "autobiography". If, on the other hand, you want to read improbable stories of Mingus having acrobatic sex with every woman he meets, go ahead.