JAZZ IS LIKE HEROIN TO ME ! ! ! ~~~~ ILM POST-1945 JAZZ ALBUMS POLL - THE RESULTS COUNTDOWN (now counting top 25!)

Crouch, for example, has long positioned himself as keeper of the jazz canon flame afaict. should we get Marsalis' opinion on the subject too

xp

of course a love supreme is considered a great album but if you listen to the record its not even as good as similar records from the same period, and its not like im alone in making this observation. read any fucking jazz criticism

i dont know why im arguing with shakey who admits on this list to not having heard key artists in the genre then claims to speak w/ authority about trane's best records

who admits on this list to not having heard key artists in the genre then claims to speak w/ authority about trane's best records

slow your roll there son

Fuck if I know why Freddie Hubbard's on it, though.

― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat)

you dont like freddie??

not that anyone needs to know all jazz to speak on it or something but if you're going to nitpick w/ me about this at least have some background in it

of course i can, sorry i didnt see the deadline but better this than 100 posts of someone saying "GREAT ALBUM!!!"

hey is that a go at me?

the issue isn't what I consider to be trane's best records, is this weird opinion you have that A Love Supreme is not routinely acknowledged as his signature album, his "masterpiece" etc.

xp

kind of but not really, youve been encouraging other ppl to talk the entire time xp

the issue isn't what I consider to be trane's best records, is this weird opinion you have that A Love Supreme is not routinely acknowledged as his signature album, his "masterpiece" etc.

xp

― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, September 1, 2011 12:56 PM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

my 'weird opinion' is that its not as good as other records hes done although its celebrated that way, of course i realize that like j dilla and burial fans rep for 'a love supreme' 1st, its the outsider's fav record. in some cases this coincides w/ some legendary record making (KoB), other times it feels like a success of marketing (ALS)

49    Horace Silver - Song for My Father (1964) 1228 Points, 12 votes
http://www.geardiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Horace-Silver-Song-for-My-Father.jpg
http://open.spotify.com/album/4LEnATSqKeANOJ0mLUAuCE

You know what it is, D-40? You're being weirdly nitpicky about something you weren't even a part of (you didn't actually vote). Also, your opinions on many the choices (dismissing "harp" or "outsider" jazz as less worthy than your muddled idea of Real Jazz) are plain irritating & reductionist.

well deej i'm just not particularly great at articulating my opinions so rather than waffle on with meaningless bullshit I prefer to keep posts short and let those who can do it, leaving me to enjoy reading said posts.

it's always hilarious when people get preemptively mad about what they predict will win a poll

my 'weird opinion' is that its not as good as other records hes done although its celebrated that way
i mean, that's fine, your opinion! i pretty much love everything coltrane did 1960-65, so love supreme fits in there -- it's fantastic. but it's just part of an incredible period for that band.

and yes pretty much all my posts are trying to stimulate other posts by better posters. I've been doing it like this for 10 years now, thought everyone got used to,accepted & ignored it by now :)

it's more the OTT hyperbole that grates. I mean saying that A Love Supreme has "no case" to be made or is "not even close" to being his best album is ridiculous. tons of people have made the case. I'm not one of them, but that doesn't matter.

xp

anyway glad we could turn this into YET ANOTHER thread about deej lol

some dude > that's what makes for good reading on a poll results thread though. I love people making predictions on the results

no no its deej's opinions we're talking about.

I don't think there's anything wrong with using superlatives to talk about music. Not everyone is a wanna-be music critic who feels the need to write seven page essays on the wonders of their preferred music. Music is a visceral experience.

This thread is gonna be an often-referenced archive for a long time, be nice! I'm in SF, about to take a run to Amoeba and probably buy way too many jazz albums. Don't know whether to thank this poll or curse it.

depends on what you buy

It doesn't take a background in jazz to see that deej's logic is not just flawed but nonexistent. First you say that the album is considered by proper jazz heads to be a lesser work, and then when people point out contradictory instances you a) say that they're misreading you, and b) refuse to point to anyone who actually says it is a lesser work.

Here is the Rate Your Music top jazz albums.

#8 proves ilm was right after all. Apologies to wm for not including it at first

you dont like freddie??

― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:54 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark

He never really did it for me, and I could never put my finger on why. Then I heard one of his contemporaries say, "Freddie's playing is like the Rolls-Royce aesthetic, but without the Rolls-Royce." That nailed it for me (although as I read it, I can see how it might be a little obtuse...)

48    Miles Davis - Steamin' with the Miles Davis Quintet ( 1961) 1251 Points, 10 votes
http://milesdavisonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/steamin.jpg
http://open.spotify.com/album/0Q0bftWuBSwZAHBKZr0lxB

I hope Alice's harp jazz albums score high - even if harps aren't REAL instruments, because people with vaginas most frequently play them. CLEARLY.

47    John Coltrane - Africa/Brass (1961) 1262 Points, 13 votes
http://revivalist.okayplayer.com/core/wp-content/uploads/africa-brass-cover.jpeg
http://open.spotify.com/album/5Eiyfggt1rHUJaKoiD6ZBU

I remember tylerw once directed me to an awesome performance of this, feat. Alice. :D

all of those "...with the Miles Davis Quintet" albums run together in my head. they're all pretty good, but none of them stand out from the others. looking at that cover, don't even think i've ever heard Steamin'.

that reminds me i forgot to respond to this -

Artist count so far -
Charles Mingus - 5
Grant Green - 5
Archie Shepp - 6
Thelonious Monk - 6
Herbie Hancock - 6
Pharoah Sanders - 7
Sun Ra - 10
John Coltrane - 15 (plus on other albums)
Miles Davis - 21

I've nothing against Miles, but this is kinda ridiculous; it seems pretty much every one of his 50s, 60s, and 70s albums will place in the poll. Can't imagine any other major genre where one artist would eclipse all the others so strongly... Whenever I go to the jazz shelf in a general record store (i.e. one that doesn't specialize in jazz), it looks like half the records on the shelf are various Miles reissues and compilations.

― Tuomas, Thursday, 1 September 2011 07:29 (12 hours ago

Tuomas , please remember that it's a 250. It is also hardly surprising that 21 miles albums would get in so far (more since the countdown resumed after you posted that. it would be wrong if some of the greatest jazz albums ever didn't place just because one guy is responsible. Miles and Coltrane have huge awesome discographies, in miles case it spanned like 5 decades?, it also means a lot of different people have their own favourites.

And at the end of the day this is a poll of ilxors favourite jazz albums, and if that includes 20 miles or every hancock/mingus/hubbard etc or even zappa's jazz albums then that will be reflected in the poll.

or in short, it's an ILM poll.

Or in short, it shouldn't be that shocking to enter the classical section of the record store and find that there's MANY RECORDINGS OF MOZART.

well of course shops will sell what is the biggest sellers. They're not a library.
A really good specialist shop should stock back catalog but many don't due to lack of money. A big store only sells the big sellers and it's no wonder people dont go there when they dont cater for them.

I just think being shocked that people REALLY like 20 Miles Davis records is similar to being shocked that people REALLY like 20 Mozart symphonies.

i mean, that's fine, your opinion! i pretty much love everything coltrane did 1960-65, so love supreme fits in there -- it's fantastic. but it's just part of an incredible period for that band.

― tylerw, Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:01 PM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

fwiw i wasnt arguing with you & basically agree w/ your post more or less, i was responding specifically to shakey

46    Ornette Coleman - This Is Our Music (1961) 1343 Points, 12 votes
http://991.com/newGallery/Ornette-Coleman-This-Is-Our-Music-447970.jpg
http://open.spotify.com/album/5dx51fo9eKRUo0GyZSKaxy

It doesn't take a background in jazz to see that deej's logic is not just flawed but nonexistent. First you say that the album is considered by proper jazz heads to be a lesser work, and then when people point out contradictory instances you a) say that they're misreading you, and b) refuse to point to anyone who actually says it is a lesser work.

― emil.y, Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:06 PM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

im looking for examples but havent seen any, but then, there isn't much jazz crit online (plenty of forum discussions about whether the LP is overrated, though); i dont think it takes much work to see that the kinds of venues praising the record are the kinds that generally treat jazz as a sideshow anyway.

Ole! Speak No Evil! Africa Brass! This Is Our Music! What the top 10 should look like! Bet next we'll have Journeys In Saub;uigbfq;eh; and The Shape of Jazz to Come if this is how its going down.

xp It doesn't take much work, yet you haven't been able to find examples. Interesting.

A Love Supreme is awes, Kind Of Blue... isn't the best Miles by a long shot imo. Bet In A Silent Way wins this poll anyway.

xp It doesn't take much work, yet you haven't been able to find examples. Interesting.

― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:53 PM (2 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

? penguin guide and rolling stone? you provided the examples already, thats what im saying

A Love Supreme is awes, Kind Of Blue... isn't the best Miles by a long shot imo. Bet In A Silent Way wins this poll anyway.

― gay socialists smoking mushrooms with their illegal gardeners (a hoy hoy), Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:53 PM (6 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

backwards

this is rock fan rewriting

minimalizing of JAZZ VALUES

im sorry if you guys wanted to make this abt me, or accuse me of being a 'wannabe critic' -- im just responding honestly to what I see as the ANTI JAZZ BIAS of the jazz poll

deej you think we have an anti-jazz bias? this is coming from what exactly? that canon records may do well?

http://www.downbeat.com/default.asp?sect=cpollindex

xp Dude, you don't even qualify as a wanna-be critic. You're just stirring shit with clearly uninformed ~~~~controversial opinions~~~~ because you want to pick a fight instead of actually conversing about something, just like you do in, oh, *every other thread*.

I wanna know where I stand in yr line of thinking deej. How is my fusion allergy related to an anti-jazz bias?

i dont get the anti-jazz bias things at all. jazz is obviously a broad church encompassing lots of different styles. most of these styles have been represented. A lot of posters are into the different styles too. i don't see what is wrong with that? (yes i'm one who likes lots of styles)

Also 'classic' jazz from the 50s and 60s has been very well represented in this poll so far.