British Folk (and Revival)

-- We Buy a Hammer For Dadaismus (dadaismu...), December 15th, 2005 9:56 AM. (Dada) (later)

I just thought it was ILM law to mention Reynolds whenever possible.

I wish there were more songs like Tam Lyn by Fairport, i.e funky Black Sabbath. Swedish doom band Witchcraft get there sometimes.

most of the the wyrd-folk stuff is only surface level weird. The second Steeleye recording of The Blacksmith is so much more bizarre than any of them, and that isn't even what it's trtying to do - what an amazing arrangement it has. Modern wyrd-folk types too much like Colin Hunt types... "You do have to be mad to work here but it doesn't help" etc.

You're right

The message I'm getting from this thread is that newer musicans aren't up to the standard of older musicians in folk music? Obviously ppl like mattacks, dransfield, guys from gryphon, thompson etc are hard to follow (evidence on eg Fairport's ROCKING live album "House Full") but I had kind of thought folk would be a genre where powerful/expressive musicianship/group playing would still be at some sort of premium. Dissapointing if not so.

Anyway, "No Roses" by Shirley Collins/Albion band is fucking great, and should get more props, basically.

AFAIK the terrible term wyrd-folk was coined by Stone Breath's Tim Renner.

But, before I begin to sound like a prog rocker, you don't have to be a brilliant musician to play folk music - in fact, one of the reasons I got sick of that whole scene was its muso-ishness (especially, fiddle players who only want to play as fast and as twiddly as possible!). To play like Fairport you have to be pretty good tho of course!

Morris On I like, other Albions stuff I'm not mad on, really. Perhaps the drums are why? I haven't listened to any for a while.

That's a good record that is. 'Lay Me Low' or whatever it's called just kills me. Totally tramples over any sort of aesthetic barriers I might have erected against that sort of soppy twaddle and stomps all over my jaded old heart. Sniffle.

Didn't really know there was any "revival" of British folk right now in terms of new bands playing it. I knew there was a revival of interest in the last few years, otherwise I wouldn't really know who Fairport Convention was, honestly.

I've often thought that 60s British folk revivalists treated folk music with much more respect and subtlty than their American counterparts did (who went for "simplicity" and "rawness"). This might also explain why I find Brit bands better at playing blues than their white American counterparts.

search: Shirley and Dolly Collins "Plains of Waterloo."

and sweet heavens, some forty posts in let me be the first to say the hallowed name of Davy Graham.

Have you seen them? Because they fucking do. Or did when they opened for Devendra in Edinburgh. But crap.

Espers draws far more influence from Pentangle and Bread, Love and Dreams.

Sorry. But you drew a very poor comparison.

Dave Mattacks was playing in bar bands here in Boston for a while a few years ago (and may still be). He was introduced to me by a friend who said "hey, you like Richard Thompson, don't you? This is Dave; he played drums with him."

As a huge fan of the complete family tree of Brit-folk(-rock), I don't think the entirely unassuming Mr. Mattacks was quite prepared for the amount of drool that ensued. It somehow seemed even bigger to me than meeting, say, Richard Thompson himself, because Mattacks defined that particular sound as much as anybody. Frankly, I think he was frightened by me.

When I asked him why he moved to Boston, he said, "just to try get gigs." As much as I know how small our idols' roles are in the world of commercial music, it was crushing to hear that out of him.

i certainly hear influences of the old stuff in the new, but nothing too much alike. espers don't sound much like fairport to me, aside from the pretty vocals. i saw them once live and they were more weird sounding, like almost "trance" and really dark. i don't know, i have looked into them and thier inflkuences, but most of the stuff they talk about or people who like them tal about seems so unheard of or really hard to find. i don't think devendra's stuff sounds like any of it. i'd like to hear that lucky luke band.

We seem to be agreeing on just about everything here

just not getting any of the uk folk music.

and however said that the espers sounds like bread over fairport is spot on.

18th day of may is too much of a fairport copyist band. pretty dull fair.

i have a lot of time for lucky luke..

lucky luke is dull as fuck!! its like listening to grateful dead b-sides.

dadaimus ... did you get the vashti record. its pretty. but there is absolutely nothing of substance. i couldn't remember one song after it finished playing!

i think with Vashti -- it has that hip 'quotient' ... nobody dareth say that the album was dull as fuck because you know, its like VASHTI, and its like so awesome she recorded something.

I prefer the second Steeleye Span LP to the first, and I prefer both to Liege and Lief.

Hello Doomie!

its funny re: patti smith. i remember in 87 i heard about her and i was like i have to hear some of this music and i went out and bought ... the book of life?? something like that? and it was so dull. i didnt buy another patti smith album for five years.

(Someone criticised VB on here many moons ago and received a not-very-impressed email from La Bunyan herself, I understand. How exciting!)

Folk divas. I can't think of anything more boring! Hey Tim!

REALLY curious about Alexander Tucker.

Lovely Martin Carthy. My grandfather played and sang with him in Bath and Sidmouth. I'm reliably informed their singing voices were very similar too.

I saw Martin Simpson at a local church last weekend. He was great as ever, and just as pissed off. He played mostly stuff off his new album; Deportee, a Woody Guthrie cover, was probably the highlight. It's a predominantly conservative area, so some of his barbed comments about Rwanda and Gaza were met with a mixture of soft applause and awkward silence.

American here and I don't know Martin Simpson at all except that I have ardently loved his cover of "Boots of Spanish Leather" for many years, just the most beautiful guitar figures. I don't even remember how I first came across it but I throw it on not infrequently. Nice to see his name pop up :)

He's an extraordinary guitar player. I've never really fallen for a record of his, which is strange given how many albums he has. He makes sense in a live setting: along with his mesmerising playing, he's a brilliant storyteller and his rage is palpable.

He lived in the States for about 10 years, I think. He's back in the UK now - living in Sheffield; Richard Hawley is a neighbour. If he tours anywhere nearby, go see!

will do!

Seriously in love with this song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEL7rw3iDEA

Question about british folk from 60s/70s vs the last few decades: does the eerie/mythic/mystical side still have a lot of presence or has that mostly migrated into rock and metal? Whenever I'm in the folk section the new cds never seem to have much of that in their presentation.

The traditional songs haven't changed.

feels like it comes up sometimes, like Candidate and Woodcraft Folk, but recently people that way inclined seem to go straight to Hauntology

Not her main thing, but you do pass through some of that when Hull's Katie Spencer pauses in the olde walls with members of John Martyn's band, principally on Hurt In Your Heart. She sounds like she's learned a lot from Martyn, but doesn't imitate him. The Edge of the Land was my gateway, still a particular fave, but it's all good on her Bandcamp---kinda reminds me of (an unmistakably British) youngblood Bonnie Raitt, just showing up knowing how to do all this stuff: https://katiespencerofficial.bandcamp.com/

Anyone going to see Martin Carthy on his US tour? Sadly not coming very close to me.

https://transformmethenintoafish.com/

Martin's quite frail and forgetful these days, which might be uncomfortable to witness; a good friend of mine saw him in March, and wrote at length about it towards the end of this blog post: https://www.davidbelbin.com/blog/2025/03/the-old-guys-martin-carthy-john-cale-van-morrison/

I was reminded last week that I got Steve Roud's Folksong In England a while back and never got around to reading it.
So need to get into that and a couple of other books on the subject in the near future.

Question about british folk from 60s/70s vs the last few decades: does the eerie/mythic/mystical side still have a lot of presence or has that mostly migrated into rock and metal? Whenever I'm in the folk section the new cds never seem to have much of that in their presentation.

Can't speak for the last few decades, but there's definitely been a few acts like that in the last few years. Angeline Morrison has an incredible voice, low and resonant or still and piercing, and has albums of traditional tunes and original songs, including one project (The Sorrow Songs) putting the stories of several Black Britons through history into song. It's incredible, the best album of the 2020s so far. The new Shovel Dance Collective album is on that same level, it's quite sparse most of the time but then bursts into these waves of noise. Goblin Band are a little sillier but their version of The Brisk Lad is discordant and sinister in all the right ways.

And a little older, but Alasdair Roberts' 2005 album No Earthly Man is stunning if you're interested in Scottish folk. The instrumentals and his voice are almost unbearably light.

If you're interested in the eerie and mythic side you'll have the most luck with current Irish folk. Lankum (who have their own thread somewhere here) draw out old folk tunes into these gorgeous bleak drones, and their side project ØXN is also worth listening to. Eoghan Ó Ceannabháin and Lisa O'Neill are more singer-songwriter-y but share some of that sublime bleakness, the latter's All You Need Is Chance is my 2nd favourite album of the 2020s so far.

Other acts that I haven't checked out as much but also lean in that direction: Burd Ellen, The 15th Day of May

Would that be The Eighteenth Day of May or has someone come up with a similar name?

Yes it's the 18th! Got the days mixed up lol

Seeing Carthy on Sunday. His daughter (who iirc is very good) will be with him.

Folk is one of the genres in the 20% off feature with Cherry Red this month alongside country and reggae.

OK, following up on mike t-diva, Carthy is indeed pretty frail and occasionally forgets lyrics (there are a lot to rememeber!), and he divided his time between sitting and standing. But his playing was good and accurate, and while I can't imagine seeing him without Eliza as (literal) support at his side, she did a great job keeping him and the show on track. And tbh when Martin told a couple of stories or played a few songs by himself, he was funny and engaging. What's wild is that I saw Bruce Cockburn the night before (#onethread), and Cockburn is just around 80, so only three years younger than Carthy. But despite Cockburn's own physical ailments, he seemed much less frail than Carthy.

Glad to hear it was an enjoyable show, Josh.

Listening to What Love Is, this year's album by Katie Spencer, who I posted about upthread in March: thee early UK folk-rock spareness is still her template for self-expression. a bit more consistently than on some previous releases--voice and reverby finger-picking, double bass, occasional clarinet, drum, with "juno" (synth, I take it) and/or pedal steel, blending with or backing her guitar---occasionally, yeah--it's on her bandcamp with the others I mentioned. Just now: vocal authority in "Stranger," with no need to use power.

Oh sorry, that was the finale, "Carry It All," with her whole little band in there.