Beyonce - 4

tbh i have the same response of wanting to brush that off, & i don't know quite why - i guess something between it being endemic & sorta 'a genre staple' enough for it to seem weird to attach specific personal responsibility to someone involved; or partly because of wariness at the idea of attributing responsibility at beyonce to utterly control and limit her & others' messages and make them as broadly appropriate & positive as possible, which is a lot to ask. volunteering this not b/c i think it's right but just because i feel the kneejerk 'that's concern trolling' thing, sorta.

I'm not gonna argue against the problems with the song title (because duh) but, generally speaking, people tend to look upon husbands talking about how much they love/want/admire their wives as a good thing.

also Kanye's verse is the one that is horrible

i think in this case it's extra weird to implicate beyonce somehow, b/c you're asking her to actively intervene in the delivery of someone else's, jay's, message, which seems at the far end of 'to what extent should a publicly revered performer have to work to address these issues'. like we probably ought to be looking at, you know, jay, or just any number of gross kanyeisms to consider the women-as-bitches effect on an audience

xp

xp @ dan i know the way he gets all spritely & says & some les-be-anz?, awful

concern trolling is not strictly the same thing as trolling fwiw

http://rapgenius.com/Kanye-west-thats-my-bitch-lyrics

it's kind of amazing that Kanye manages to out-terrible Elly Jackson

it is a genre staple, and im not saying rappers should never say 'bitch' (though ive a feeling a track like queen latifahs unity would prob get dismissed on a place like ilx if it came out today for being out of date step with 'genre staples'), just that its odd for one half of such a high profile couple to make a track called thats my bitch when everyone knows who his partner is (obv lines like the one about bagging supermodels are also to be taken lightly but i dunno, thats my bitch seems more specific as a kind of 'idealised partner' kind of rap song) and esp when the partner in question has made such a big deal of not taking shit from men etc. you could just jay is rapping in a make believe juvenile hip hop universe where its all par for the course, and im not saying i expect beyonce to take a stand against the whole 'THEYRE CALLING WOMEN BITCHES' issue, but youd think she might just *mind* being called that in songs made by her husband.

"people tend to look upon husbands talking about how much they love/want/admire their wives as a good thing."

even songs when theyre calling them bitches?

i mean, HELLO, look at the lyrics:

Back to my Beyoncés
Get ya own dog, ya heard? That's my bitch

yeah, its def not about beyonce.

if jay and beyonce had some sort of ike and tina relationship i could understand it more but erm, they dont.

i think that line is just a perfect example of jay (and b) getting a laugh out of scandalizing the easily offended

im not offended by it. its one of the best songs on the album for me. but i think people are so blase about the whole 'bitches/hos' thing that it no longer affects them or as your reaction seems to be, they just dont want to look like oprah.

^ third partner inside carter household.

idk, i am, especially relative to everyone here, not great on beyonce's rhetoric but i feel like you're putting a lot on her, & i feel like there are a lot of areas in which her music is operating inside of more complicated frameworks than 'not taking shit from men' - like part of that feminist community discussion was re: marriage in single ladies, etc. & so i don't know where we are - that she might mind, which i guess she might or might not, depending on her & her view of that kinda genre staple thing, or that she's being somehow insufficient as a role model, which is just complicated imo - it's tangential but i think i get cynical the more intense this kind of lyrical interrogation gets because i think it gets further and further away from what someone perceiving b as a role model gets from beyonce - this whole package rather than a sheet of lyrics to be scrutinised etc.

(though ive a feeling a track like queen latifahs unity would prob get dismissed on a place like ilx if it came out today for being out of date step with 'genre staples'),

don't know this but interested to hear it, & i know i'm potentially glossing over a lot with 'oh sure that's just part of the vocab' etc.

"this whole package rather than a sheet of lyrics to be scrutinised"

sure but if someone is a musician and we cant draw some conclusions from their lyric sheets then what are we left with? her lyrics and persona are a huge part of what made all those girls rush to the front of the stage at glastonbury.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8cHxydDb7o

(great song ftr)

classic!

its a good concern-trolling song.

tbh I don't see any conflict between Jay-Z referring to Beyonce as his bitch and the strength of Beyonce's pro-woman stance; if anything, it underlines how hollow and facile her pro-woman stance is (really, the only song I can think of where she hasn't defined her womanhood and power by how it relates to a man is the song that everyone but me hates, "Girls (Who Run The World)")

As a result, while there may be a problem here that deserves investigation, it's an expected, unsurprising one that most people have already bought into and resolved for themselves, so there isn't really that much left to talk about.

congrats titchy you learned a new phrase, keep working on using it in sentences

yeah thanks guys, ilx keeps on giving.

sure but if someone is a musician and we cant draw some conclusions from their lyric sheets then what are we left with?

oh yeah sure, and i'm speaking personally when i say i get kinda sorta cynical - i think it's v complicated and then i think sorta don't engage, but that's not to say that the things should be immune to scrutiny.

rap music sometimes refers to women as bitches, my eyes have been opened

that's my titch

okay lol

hahaha

not sure the phrase "whole package" should be mentioned regarding Jay-Z.

found a great review of the new york show the other day -- definitely amped to see this show

don't care for the original but i heard a big gay remix of Best Thing I Never Had at a terrible gay club and it actually worked quite well. vocals sounded great sped up a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaasJ44O5lI

shiny

what a dumb video for a great song.

she looks like an imbecile in that freeze.

i am just going to pretend the american idol backstage rehearsal of 1+1 is the official video

she usually does when she has her "acting face" on

xpost

horseshoe otm

yup

the video is not as good as it could have been but the song still makes me want to cry every time i hear it so

Video is very cO__Ol imo.

Video looks like a 2cb trip I once had

Not really getting the love for Dance For You, songwriting-wise it feels too much like an off-the-peg Terius ballad to me, and the opening is kind of a mess.

the teriusism of it is the best bit i think- poppin this thing, drop drop drop DROPpin this this back. & i think she could be singing the grinding bit on top of a lo-quality rip of an old scratched up library music lp & i'd still think it was a first-grade well-rendered pop symphony.

i only just got around to taking in 'countdown' on this, in a repeat listen sense, etc, it's something else

i love how at the climax of 'dance for you' she sings how "no money can emphasise or describe the love" she has and then immediately follows it with how it is "beyond sex" as if those two things are inextricably linked in her mind. well she's always equated the two but her love for jay has caused the financial vocabulary that exists as the basic language for how she views & interacts with the world to break down, and that's really the ultimate complement she can give him. after a whole album of trying to describe her love for him in various different ways, she's just left awed; it works as the ultimate climax to end the deluxe album with.

Not really getting the love for Dance For You

^^^

btw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veW3qgtS384

it's one of the best ballads terius has written and it's sung by someone who's a way better vocalist & on top of her game

just 'got it 4 u'

OMG SHE IS PREGNANT

http://www.popculturemajor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/384411788.jpg

what

why was my first thought on hearing this news "BUT YOU HAVEN'T RELEASED COUNTDOWN YET"

Because you are a selfish music fan? *shrugs*

When I heard the news I thought, "Oh well there goes that tour." :(