The King Crimson studio album poll

bruford's comments on the ABWH and Union tour that are on wiki (which are from his autobiography I think) are kind of amusing.

From Bruford's FAQ:

Why are you no longer playing with King Crimson?
First, because I can think of nothing to add, and second, because I have other things to do. Pat Mastelotto has the gig well covered. As a member of the band for some 25 years off and on, I found the experience challenging, innovative, and exasperating in equal measure, and I wouldn't have changed a moment of it. I learned lots about music, and my place in it, over the years, and was lucky enough to participate in some concerts that neither audience nor musicians will be likely to forget in a hurry. Somewhere around the turn of the millennium it became obvious to me that I had achieved all I was likely to achieve in the mighty Crim.

I have also been keen to get back to the vernacular of jazz, not as a tourist, but as a full time committed member, and the second edition of Earthworks opened up full throttle in 1998. To make progress in the one demanded renouncing the other.

I can respect that.

Always love Bruford's comment about when he first joined KC, that it was the only band that when he joined he was given a reading list.

whoah I missed this revive

please email me, Sparkle Motion!

((me too))

No probs dudes, anyone else who wants a further education in advanced lizard studies let me know

Did any of these anniversary reissues include liner notes? My feeling is that Fripp's own stories about the making of these records (based on Steve Wilson's experience w Fripp in the studio remixing them) would be gold.

I just pulled out my copy of the Young Person's Guide booklet--which is a compendium of reviews, articles and Fripp diary entries from 69-76 (the only item I've ever stolen -- I stuck the booklet in a copy of Red I was going to buy)--and was just stunned at what an exciting and hilarious read it is.

I've only read the liner notes to Red. It was informative, but didn't contain any personal reminiscences that I can remember.

I just pulled out my copy of the Young Person's Guide booklet--which is a compendium of reviews, articles and Fripp diary entries from 69-76 (the only item I've ever stolen -- I stuck the booklet in a copy of Red I was going to buy)--and was just stunned at what an exciting and hilarious read it is

Yes, that was the first KC album I ever bought and I love that booklet as well. I like the way he answers back to negative reviews. IIRC the same text (but not the photos) was used for the booklet in the Great Deceiver box set.

a lot of the 30th anniversary discs contained that stuff, a lot of the newspaper articles were pretty entertaining.

I remember one that claimed that Earthbound was their best work, wtf

They had the clippings of the reviews and stuff but I don't think they had Fripp's diary or his acerbic comments. I do remember one 1974 review in particular saying that the then just released Red was the best KC album. In retrospect he was OTM, as confirmed by this poll!

Maybe I'm thinking of the live albums that had some commentary on it? I remember getting The Night Watch which had a few quotes from the band members saying that they didn't feel they were "on" that night, and yet they used the performance for S&BB (plus that live album) anyway. What kind of stuff does Fripp end up saying?

One example that sticks in my mind is some lengthy rant of a negative review (most of the 69-74 reviews were actually very positive) that included a line about "the well known break in 'Schizoid Man' relied heavily on studio gimcrackery." There were so many things Fripp could have picked up on in that review but he just drily notes underneath the review: "The 'well-known break in 'Schizoid Man' did not rely heavily on 'studio gimcrackery'" and leaves it at that. There's tons of stuff like that.

Now I'm starting to get interested in King Crimson trivia - I used to really love this website FAQ:
http://www.elephant-talk.com/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions

One thing that I always thought was interesting is that Giles, Giles & Fripp were TRYING to write a hit single, and actually gave it several good attempts - if any one of them had caught on, that would have essentially killed Crimson.

"The 'well-known break in 'Schizoid Man' did not rely heavily on 'studio gimcrackery'"

Yeah, the whole thing was done in one take, which is pretty amazing

Reading through this FAQ again is pretty entertaining. Apparently Elton John was booked to sing on Poseidon, and Fripp was originally offered the lead guitar role in Yes over Steve Howe.

Actually now I come to think of it, it was probably the Frame by Frame box set that reproduced the Young Persons booklet. The Great Deceiver box had a different booklet, probably with another load of archival material.

Yeah that ET stuff is good. There used to be an email list in the 90s which I subscribed to. Fripp made the odd intervention there. The DGM forum is OK but not the same.

I read a ton of ET in the mid 90s, I think the fervent devotion of the fans was good (it led to the Collectors Club) and bad (pandering from the band, resulting in songs like Prozakc blues).

I would love to see some PDFs of the box set booklets... I remember my local library had the Frame by Frame box (and the Great Deceiver now that I think about it) and that booklet was amazing, just jam packed full of press clippings, photos, and a massive fold out band family tree.

I think about stuff like that occasionally. It would take either the prepress files from whoever designed the booklets, or somebody cutting/breaking the binding on a copy so they could scan it. Back when I was selling my CDs, sometimes when a disc sold that had a really interesting booklet, I'd scan it quickly before shipping. Got a lot of scans from various late-90s Chess reissues, some Woody Guthrie Asch Recordings...keep meaning to OCR them but haven't bothered yet. I've kept the book in the Great Deceiver box in nice shape, don't want to break it down in case I ever get a decent offer for the set.

I kind of get the impression that Fripp's a guy who compulsively saves everything ever written about him for "posterity". I guess for better or worse at least his OCD allows us to have like 150 CDs of live material should we ever want it.

Yeah I just dug out my Frame by Frame box, the booklet is indeed the Young Persons booklet updated to 1991. And very nice it is too.

I bet that's a great read. What is in the Great Deceiver notes? I'm contemplating forking over some money for it.

Looking back over that YPG booklet really took me back -- and made me think about that ageless tension in King Crimson between the music and the words. I find myself periodically getting absorbed in the first four records -- and oddly enough, the Sinfield lyrics are usually a big reason why. I saw some website years ago that "interpreted" them—explaining all the literary references and so forth—and while they're florid to a ludicrous degree, their sense of unbridled ambition is kind of refreshing in today's day and age -- kind of charmingly quaint. Don't get me wrong -- there are definitely some clunkers ("The Letter" is a big one) -- and several go well beyond outlandish to the point of confused ("Lizard"). Still, I'm usually surprised at how well the lyrics fit with the music and how evocative their imagery is. Quite frankly, they make me think far more than the author of ELP's "Taste of My Love" has any real right to.

And while I'm no vinyl purist by any means, I would add that the gatefolds are critical to the overall listening experience -- for the first three records anyway. While mine got waterdamaged years ago, I particularly loved listening along to my big glossy copy of Poseidon.

I know this is unrelated, but I asked this in a thread already, did you ever wind up listening to Love Beach??

Didn't somebody do a "Taste of My Love" poll? That's the only track I've heard, and it is truly hilarious.

(xpost) Were the British LP jackets glossy? Poseidon in the US was soft and fuzzy-ish.

Aw man, I love "The Letters", but yeah, totally florid.

I'm flicking through the Great Deceiver one now. It's not quite as nice as the FbF one because it's longbox shaped.

Let's see now. There's an essay by Fripp about playing live. Extracts from his diary in 1974. A bunch of liner notes by various critics. Lots of published reviews of FbF. And a sprinkling of live photos, which are mostly a bit underwhelming.

On the lyrics, I've always found Richard Palmer-James's to be more interesting than Sinfield's. That yearning, lyrical quality suits Wetton's voice well.

I know this is unrelated, but I asked this in a thread already, did you ever wind up listening to Love Beach??

Of course not.

So...that decscription (very appreciated, btw) doesn't make it sound like The Great Deceiver is necessarily worth buying for the book alone -- right, anagram?

I think all his liner notes have been a great teaser for the book he's finishing up now. I wonder what the ratio of bile to joy is going to be.

I shouldn't say "finishing up" -- "still in progress," rather.

So...that decscription (very appreciated, btw) doesn't make it sound like The Great Deceiver is necessarily worth buying for the book alone

I would say yes, don't buy it for the book alone. The music's great too though, of course!

I would say that TGD is an essential KC release.

And while I'm no vinyl purist by any means, I would add that the gatefolds are critical to the overall listening experience -- for the first three records anyway. While mine got waterdamaged years ago, I particularly loved listening along to my big glossy copy of Poseidon.

Yep, absolutely, those albums are completely diminished without the vinyl gatefolds. My copy of Lizard has the gilded lettering and everything. So disappointing to pull out the CD with the plain printed cover or, worse, play it on the ipod.

Listening to one of the Denver Collector's Club releases right now from '72 w Boz, Mel Collins, etc. And I gotta say, while it's a million miles from the Lark's lineup, this was a great band. The version of "Cirkus" on this with the dueling Mellotrons on the break with Wallace playing this spartan death march to Hell is a complete mindfuck.

Listening now to the unexpurgated Asbury Park for the first time, it's disorienting--Cross' Mellotron is waaaay louder in the mix. Weird like listening to the unedited In A Silent Way sessions, hearing something I love inside of something that didn't previously exist. I'm honestly not sure if I like it, fascinating though it is.

I've always wondered how Eddie Jobson overdubbed his parts on USA. I mean, it's a live album. Also, why? Was David Cross' performance subpar? And if so, why release that of all shows? Same goes for Earthbound. Makes me wonder if both releases were some kind of grand joke on the bands and/or label. Has Fripp ever said anything?

I think Cross & Fripp had had it out by that point. I don't know about the overdubbing on Earthbound--actually I wasn't aware of any. I can tell you after having listened to the entirety of the Asbury Park show that it's one of their best, with ace sound quality to boot.

Sorry, I didn't mean overdubbing on Earthbound -- just releasing a live album of a band that wasn't really representative of said band.

I'd really love to hear the whole show. Seems like a bunch of the ones right near the end--Providence, Asbury Park, Central Park--are among the best.

Btw, the remixed Lizard is pretty great -- thx for sharing. The run-through of "Lady of the Dancing Water" with the different chords is particularly interesting.

Now I'm confused. I just read that when Fripp re-released USA as part of the 30th/40th Anniversary editions, since all the performances bar one had been from Asbury Park, he just decided to add "Fracture" and "Starless" from that show to the reissue and replace said performance ("Schizoid Man") to make it a complete Asbury Park show. So what's different about it from the Collectors Club edition you heard, Sparkle Motion? The mixes? The Presence of Eddie Jobson?

I've always wondered how Eddie Jobson overdubbed his parts on USA. I mean, it's a live album.

IIRC David Cross originally played on the USA album, but was overdubbed by Jobson due to a record company issue. You see this on a few 70's and 80's-era live albums where one performer is under a different contract and has to be overdubbed.

My instinct tells me that can't be true, as Cross is all over the record. But then, w/o looking at my vinyl, I can't remember whether he's credited as a full member or as an additional performer.

To add to the confusion, I just dl'd the USA 30th Anniversary edition to hear the complete Asbury Park concert and..."Easy Money" still fades out.

Yeah, I've been doing some research and it looks like Cross does appear on a few of the tracks. Now I'm not really sure what happened - maybe Fripp felt like his playing was substandard on the others? Perhaps it wasn't recorded well? Not sure where I heard the record company thing but it seemed plausible as I have a few other live albums on which this happens.

I haven't done a proper A/B comparison between USA and the Asbury Park KCCC release...but the track "Asbury Park" sounds substantially different. For years my copy of USA was a vinyl rip bootleg, well before the 30th Anniversary releases (which RF relented to just putting USA & Earthbound out as they had been originally released, Easy Money fadeout and all). The sound on that boot was decent, but the 30th Anniversary edition was cleaned up to the point where Cross' playing was more pronounced--this is the version I included on V.3 of the comp set.
The newer one is all the more exposed, I don't know if it's a matter of mixing, or editing, or both. Jobson only appears on USA on 3 tracks: LTIA II, Schizoid Man, and Lament. In any event I can say that the sound is killer on the Asbury Park complete show, and the band is incredibly tight. It's really a shame they didn't make more music after Red.

Wow, this new Lizard is actually pretty good

I had not previously heard ANY of that guitar in "Indoor Games" and I've heard the album like 20 times

They really did an awesome job with this

Just picked up the David Cross solo album "Exiles" (1997 I think...?) - it's actually kind of good. Not really what you'd expect from a violinist's solo album - it's actually quite heavy, with a good dose of Fripp and some other guitarists. It does have a remake of "Exiles" with Wetton, which is decent (but has some weird techno shit in it that doesn't really take), and has Pete Hammill on a couple of tracks. My first impression is that it's at least as good as anything Crimson released from the 90's on. Though there really isn't much of an "identity" here. Anyway just thought I'd let you guys know.

I don't remember much from it. I did listen to an earlier one from the 80s called Memos From Purgatory--it had some typical era-specific production touches, but wasn't bad overall.
You know, the Larks Tongues group are all still around--maybe they should give it another go...

Wetton has openly questioned whether he has the energy at 60 or whatever to play like that anymore. And Bruford sounds Fripp'd out.

Btw, was just reading these old pieces from the NME by Ian MacDonald in 1973 on Fripp's incorrigible sexual appetites (and apparently, prowess!). They have to be read to be believed -- and are kind of mind-blowing for anyone who's followed Fripp over the years and feels like they've pinned him down.

Fripp's incorrigible sexual appetites (and apparently, prowess!).

whaaaaaaa?!