Beyonce - 4

also, the way the words fit on top of the beat contrasts what is deceptively ordinary (the lyrics) against something much more obviously powerful (the instrumentation). it is a deft contrast, both truthful and humorous.

"Most inarticulate superstar to emerge from the last decade" is a very very crowded field and I'm not sure Beyonce is even in the running. Rihanna maybe.

maybe she just says dumb shit to the press & is cool & smart irl thats whats i believe

xp kanye obv? the field is only limited because the number of superstars is by defn limited

I have no problem calling Kanye stupid but I have a massive problem calling him "inarticulate"; he very clearly says stupid, stupid things.

otm

dan i have traditionally had similar misgivings about beyonce to what it sounds like your wife's are. not that i think she's stupid but there's something blank about the way she has seemed on camera and in interviews that kind of freaks me out and i think has affected my ability to totally buy into (lol at beyonce materialistic metaphor) her work. this album has convinced me that i've been unfair to her. she sings these songs so smartly.

she's really boring when she's not performing in some fashion -- i'm not sure if that means she's dumb tho, i would guess not

i do not care that much about how smart she is in her interviews -- i care mostly about the music, and i do not think her music or her lyrics are stupid. i like the lyrics of irreplaceable, and i like the term bootylicious.

She's always stuck me more as v guarded than as dumb.

private like a hedge fund manager

She's always stuck me more as v guarded than as dumb.

― dutty whiney (The Reverend), Tuesday, August 9, 2011 1:42 PM (46 seconds ago) Bookmark

yeah i think this is probably right also lol lex otm.

i love irreplaceable tbh also i thought ne-yo wrote it?

Yeah, he did.

Apologies if this has already been posted, but this is the original version of "Best Thing I Never Had": http://soundcloud.com/pop-labyrinth/beyonc-best-thing-i-never-had

Still hate it.

i was listening to 'i was here' yesterday and it occurred to me that one of the most crucial elements of the song is the music box behind the chorus. it really gives it wheels.

― j lol (surm), Monday, August 1, 2011 12:47 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark

sometimes i'm not so sure surm isn't secretly one of the most incisive music critics on this board

Most times.

aww, shucks, you guys are sweet! thank you.

i am going to see Beyonce on friday ....

I must meet more introverted hedge fund managers.

glad beyonce doesnt mind being the inevitable subject of the throne's 'thats my bitch'. thats a good female role model for the masses.

oh goodie concern trolling

I didn't realize that women looked to Jay-Z to provide them with a role model

i love people who wheel out the word 'trolling' whenever someone says something they dont like or agree with. well done on being so above it all. i think its a valid discussion point, esp in light of all the feminist blogs springing to her defence just a few months ago.

tbh i have the same response of wanting to brush that off, & i don't know quite why - i guess something between it being endemic & sorta 'a genre staple' enough for it to seem weird to attach specific personal responsibility to someone involved; or partly because of wariness at the idea of attributing responsibility at beyonce to utterly control and limit her & others' messages and make them as broadly appropriate & positive as possible, which is a lot to ask. volunteering this not b/c i think it's right but just because i feel the kneejerk 'that's concern trolling' thing, sorta.

I'm not gonna argue against the problems with the song title (because duh) but, generally speaking, people tend to look upon husbands talking about how much they love/want/admire their wives as a good thing.

also Kanye's verse is the one that is horrible

i think in this case it's extra weird to implicate beyonce somehow, b/c you're asking her to actively intervene in the delivery of someone else's, jay's, message, which seems at the far end of 'to what extent should a publicly revered performer have to work to address these issues'. like we probably ought to be looking at, you know, jay, or just any number of gross kanyeisms to consider the women-as-bitches effect on an audience

xp

xp @ dan i know the way he gets all spritely & says & some les-be-anz?, awful

concern trolling is not strictly the same thing as trolling fwiw

http://rapgenius.com/Kanye-west-thats-my-bitch-lyrics

it's kind of amazing that Kanye manages to out-terrible Elly Jackson

it is a genre staple, and im not saying rappers should never say 'bitch' (though ive a feeling a track like queen latifahs unity would prob get dismissed on a place like ilx if it came out today for being out of date step with 'genre staples'), just that its odd for one half of such a high profile couple to make a track called thats my bitch when everyone knows who his partner is (obv lines like the one about bagging supermodels are also to be taken lightly but i dunno, thats my bitch seems more specific as a kind of 'idealised partner' kind of rap song) and esp when the partner in question has made such a big deal of not taking shit from men etc. you could just jay is rapping in a make believe juvenile hip hop universe where its all par for the course, and im not saying i expect beyonce to take a stand against the whole 'THEYRE CALLING WOMEN BITCHES' issue, but youd think she might just *mind* being called that in songs made by her husband.

"people tend to look upon husbands talking about how much they love/want/admire their wives as a good thing."

even songs when theyre calling them bitches?

i mean, HELLO, look at the lyrics:

Back to my Beyoncés
Get ya own dog, ya heard? That's my bitch

yeah, its def not about beyonce.

if jay and beyonce had some sort of ike and tina relationship i could understand it more but erm, they dont.

i think that line is just a perfect example of jay (and b) getting a laugh out of scandalizing the easily offended

im not offended by it. its one of the best songs on the album for me. but i think people are so blase about the whole 'bitches/hos' thing that it no longer affects them or as your reaction seems to be, they just dont want to look like oprah.

^ third partner inside carter household.

idk, i am, especially relative to everyone here, not great on beyonce's rhetoric but i feel like you're putting a lot on her, & i feel like there are a lot of areas in which her music is operating inside of more complicated frameworks than 'not taking shit from men' - like part of that feminist community discussion was re: marriage in single ladies, etc. & so i don't know where we are - that she might mind, which i guess she might or might not, depending on her & her view of that kinda genre staple thing, or that she's being somehow insufficient as a role model, which is just complicated imo - it's tangential but i think i get cynical the more intense this kind of lyrical interrogation gets because i think it gets further and further away from what someone perceiving b as a role model gets from beyonce - this whole package rather than a sheet of lyrics to be scrutinised etc.

(though ive a feeling a track like queen latifahs unity would prob get dismissed on a place like ilx if it came out today for being out of date step with 'genre staples'),

don't know this but interested to hear it, & i know i'm potentially glossing over a lot with 'oh sure that's just part of the vocab' etc.

"this whole package rather than a sheet of lyrics to be scrutinised"

sure but if someone is a musician and we cant draw some conclusions from their lyric sheets then what are we left with? her lyrics and persona are a huge part of what made all those girls rush to the front of the stage at glastonbury.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8cHxydDb7o

(great song ftr)

classic!

its a good concern-trolling song.

tbh I don't see any conflict between Jay-Z referring to Beyonce as his bitch and the strength of Beyonce's pro-woman stance; if anything, it underlines how hollow and facile her pro-woman stance is (really, the only song I can think of where she hasn't defined her womanhood and power by how it relates to a man is the song that everyone but me hates, "Girls (Who Run The World)")

As a result, while there may be a problem here that deserves investigation, it's an expected, unsurprising one that most people have already bought into and resolved for themselves, so there isn't really that much left to talk about.

congrats titchy you learned a new phrase, keep working on using it in sentences

yeah thanks guys, ilx keeps on giving.

sure but if someone is a musician and we cant draw some conclusions from their lyric sheets then what are we left with?

oh yeah sure, and i'm speaking personally when i say i get kinda sorta cynical - i think it's v complicated and then i think sorta don't engage, but that's not to say that the things should be immune to scrutiny.

rap music sometimes refers to women as bitches, my eyes have been opened

that's my titch

okay lol

hahaha

not sure the phrase "whole package" should be mentioned regarding Jay-Z.

found a great review of the new york show the other day -- definitely amped to see this show