theo parrish s/d

fixed

people are supposed to think in nightclubs???

i like to party to dumb shit as much as the next guy, ronan, but that is not cheesey contemporary gay progressive house jams or super trancey stuff. that stuff is pretty empty-sounding to me, and i won't give it the time of day.

and you know what, yeah, i do think people should think a bit when they're in a nightclub. of course, the priority is getting the high from whatever you want to get the high from (the music, thealcohol, the e, etc) and dancing your face off, but a little bit of thought and consideration would actually be totally welcome to most dance-floors, imho.

I'm not saying it should be some spazzed out experience, I just don't know why the need to judge people.

http://img.world-gay-sex.com/st/thumbs/022/0876330425.jpg

admittedly, i'm a pretty judgmental queer, but it really is the fact that mainstream gay club culture is vomitous, ronan, at least in the us.

regular club culture? totally fine, if not for businessmen not dancing whilst getting shitfaced at VIP tables...them i can do without, but everything/one else is gravy.

table it seems like your beef is with gay culture, not with trance music as such

oh no i hate trance music too. it is my major turn-off in another person re: that il thread. if someone tells me they love trance, i actually tend to think of them as an idiot and stop paying any attention to them. prgressive house i give more credit to, but that is because some of the older progressive stuff is quite good. 99% of all trance i've ever heard is garbage.

but yeah, you're probably right.

And to open that up a bit, would you really be happy Tom, if the artists you like "got their dues"?

As somebody who is nominally on the pro-detroit side of the argument I think that most of 'us' would be happy just to have a weekly place we could go and listen to the music we like with large-ish, enthusiastic, knowledgable crowds, and to be booked to DJ music we like once in a while and to see the DJs we like booked in our towns as well. Instead, the last few times I've gone to see a DJ I was excited for, it's been in an empty club, meanwhile clubs playing the latest minimal jams are packed to the rafters (ok this is overexaggerating). I think you can see where at least a little bitterness creeps in. I still don't think that being all militant and confrontational about it is the way to go, but I definately understand where they are coming from and where you could get pretty angry about the situation pretty fast.

This is probably a pretty U.S. perspective that maybe the Europeans (where I assume there is a lot more outlet for 'true detroit or whatever' music, but maybe I'm wrong about that) don't see as clearly.

rockist is the rockist

dahnceist?

Which city are you in sous les paves?

Yeah, take for example a couple years ago. Sure, the WMC is a stupid shitfest, but when Loco Dice, Steve Bug and those dudes were spinning, everyone was clawing to get it. When Derrick May, Stacy Pullen, Lee Burridge and Kevin Saunderson were spinning, there were about...oh, 40 people there? And they all still fucking had it, were pulling all sorts of crazy shit on the decks.

The only refuge I have from new minimal and tech-house stuff is disco nights, which are wildly popular here.

i dont know about loco dice or steve bug even coming through chicago. i saw matthew dear in chi once and it attracted fewer people than theo parrish. im not sure that there really is, nationally, a larger audience for tech house than classic stuff

but maybe this is also a chicago/detroit house/techno divide

i, too, would much rather see loco dice and steve bug dj than kevin saunderson!

that is what makes us different, rio. okay, steve bug v. saunderson would be hard. loco dice? meh.

I'm in San Diego. Two or three years ago some friends and I put on a pretty great techno night (IMO) and were drawing like 80 - 150 people once a month to a pretty cozy venue but the owner switched it to a prog/electro-house/breaks *gag/double-gag/triple-gag* night which promptly started drawing 300+ easy. I really can't blame the dude for doing it but I'd be lying if I said it didn't make me a little bitter for a minute. To bring it back on topic, this is the landscape you have to keep in mind when you hear detroit cats talk about how they feel marginalized or whatever.

^^ was this at kadan

and do you know tylero?

it was at honeybee hive and that is me

hi dere

breaks have a long and storied history in southern california, wouldn't take it personal. also, is that the one w/ the girl DJs? red sonya and skutech and gang? are you sure it's not just that they're better at using myspace or something?

oh yeah that is fully it, which is why I don't let the bitterness totally overtake me (introspection, admitting your own faults yo) but it did creep in. anyway sonya and sku are probably putting on the best night for house in town right now (other than the west-coast style bar dynamite night) but they book female dj's only so a lot of us are out of luck on that one. anyway this is going pretty far afield now...

the success of club nights relies on a lot of other variables though too ... what neighborhood you're in, the amount and effectiveness of promotion, the competition, the relative success of competing nights, etc

tyler - i am back in town (permanently) - hope to see you soon

I mainly listen to older things like Don Cherry and Steve Reich but I'd love to see people like Kevin Saunderson and Loco Dice! Well I've seen Kevin and he was very good but I've yet to see Loco Dice play out

"all I'm saying is personal insults are used here as an excuse not to engage with some of the points I made."

i guess that depends on the definition of the word "points".

"what's more interesting to me is that I, I think like Vahid, feel uneasy about people really vehemently hating on "dumb trance" or "cheesy house" or whatever.

I mean....shouldn't dance music retain vulgarity or a certain lack of credibility?"

no. i can't imagine why you would think so.

"I don't go out and listen to that music but I'm not a better person because of that, and I like that there is a culture where people do I think."

good for you!

"Otherwise what's left.....message board piety?"

or maybe just good music.

"And to open that up a bit, would you really be happy Tom, if the artists you like 'got their dues'?"

well let's see, i write about it obsessively for my own blog, other sites and blogs, and on message boards. nah, i dont think that would make me happy.

"What would you be posting about here? Or elsewhere?"

i would post about the same things i like posting about now: good music. it would be a relief to not have to constantly be bombarded with people who don't know shit bigging up trendy music with no past and no future. i can think of nothing better!

"If there was no shitty minimal, no morons like myself, what would your music taste be then?"

my music taste would be the same as when banging techno was popular, then "microhouse", then electroclash, then mnml, then whatever comes next.

"Once somebody 'gets their dues' isn't that just when you read about them in the broadsheets or something? And nobody cares anymore...."

no, YOU don't care any more. which is your problem entirely. i do not care less about the music of people like Stevie Wonder, Kraftwerk, John Coltrane, the Beatles, Miles Davis, Marvin Gaye, the Talking Heads, Bob Marley, etc because they get their propers. in fact it makes me very happy that they are all respected outside of their own genres simply because they made great records.

ideally, people like Derrick May, Carl Craig, Mr. Fingers, Theo Parrish, etc. would be in peoples' consciousness just the same way those other artists are. does that turn you off because it is not "techno" enough or something? i would love for those guys to be touchstones for people who make music in all genres just like those artists, it could only lead to more interesting music being out there. instead, they don't even get respect from 90% of dance music fans who are way more interested in Richie Hawtin and Ricardo Villalobos or whomever else is cool this week.

"One final thing on the vulgarity...do you think people who don't like any house or techno hear the subtlety and the differences we do here? Some of them probably think it's all shitty dance music. I still feel Theo Parrish shares more with David Guetta than he does with any non-dance artist.....just for that reason."

again with your "hearing" the subtlety. why don't you try FEELING the difference between theo and that guy, and then feeling the similarity between theo and al green or sun ra.

people who think that all dance music sounds "the same" are worthless to consider anyway. worrying about what they think is a waste of time. just because people don't know how to listen to dance music (another parallel with jazz, really) doesn't mean that their opinion counts.

"and just to bite...for whatever reason, and descend into the record collection game...probably one of the nicest responses I ever got to an article was last time I interviewed a Detroit artist...a guy who was guarded to begin with then emailed me afterwards to say he really enjoyed it.

-- Ronan"

good for you! why don't you ban me from commenting on your blog. oh wait, you've already done that.

"As somebody who is nominally on the pro-detroit side of the argument I think that most of 'us' would be happy just to have a weekly place we could go and listen to the music we like with large-ish, enthusiastic, knowledgable crowds, and to be booked to DJ music we like once in a while and to see the DJs we like booked in our towns as well. Instead, the last few times I've gone to see a DJ I was excited for, it's been in an empty club, meanwhile clubs playing the latest minimal jams are packed to the rafters (ok this is overexaggerating). I think you can see where at least a little bitterness creeps in."

the problem is that people only have a good time when their feelings are reciprocated by bloggers, music journalists, etc who are all pushing the "new best thing ever". when things break outside of what they are told to be good, they react with complete and total indifference if not disdain. this is about the conditioning of people to expect nothing but nonsense. these things you speak of are just symptoms of the larger problem.

"I still don't think that being all militant and confrontational about it is the way to go, but I definately understand where they are coming from and where you could get pretty angry about the situation pretty fast."

if being confrontational isn't the way to go, what is? people are not committed to this music enough to go out of their way to learn about it on their own. the only way is for people to break through the deafening roar of the newest hype, and that doesn't happen by playing nice.

"This is probably a pretty U.S. perspective that maybe the Europeans (where I assume there is a lot more outlet for 'true detroit or whatever' music, but maybe I'm wrong about that) don't see as clearly.

-- sous les paves"

even in Europe where the US guys may or may not get a lot of love, compare it to the hype of Berlin or Frankfurt (a few years ago) or wherever else and you still see wild inequality in terms of who gets coverage, props, etc. it may be better than it is in the US, but it is still very unbalanced.

UGLY EDITS 10
Almost as good as Achilles Last Stand on Presence

I mean....shouldn't dance music retain vulgarity or a certain lack of credibility?"

no. i can't imagine why you would think so.

YES. If the world were comprised entirely of purist pipcock clones it would be a very dull place.

"YES. If the world were comprised entirely of purist pipcock clones it would be a very dull place.

-- sam500"

i love that i am the purist yet my musical interests and deejay sets span such a huge variety of genres that it is ridiculous. i just dont understand that point of view, it doesnt make any fucking sense whatsoever. how can i be a purist if i play nothing in a pure manner?????????????

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

exactly!

because insisting on rejecting vulgarity and obsession with 'credibility' is borrrrrrring

what happened to this thread

not entirely sure

anyway I'm on record here saying essentially what TP said. all this is a reason and motive to make things better and pay dues to who's owed them. but if y'all just wanted to have a bitchfest, have at it

also can someone pls book this DJ in the bay area kthxbai

TP that is. although I'm available too

TP doesn't come out that much. i want to see him too blunt!

ive seen tp once and he blew out the sound system at sonotheque, which has one of the best rigs (almost always poorly utilized) in the city

he plays so often in london, think he must have family here or something

blew out the sound system

this was a bad thing, btw

I need to go downstairs...SS 030 come hither.

from where i sit, calling house music utopian comes from feeling/experiencing the music, not some need to insert a philosophy or to explain that feeling away. it is amazing to me how much language fails sometimes. but really this thread was so much better when everyone was enthusing about theo parrish.

it's a search and destroy, we're allowed to say bad things about theo as well. for example, "saga of resistance" was as hamfisted a sun ra tribute as any other.

I am going to be uncharacteristically blunt, even by my usual standards, because I feel confident saying that theo doesn't get sun range. sure, theo may "feel" sun range, but that's no big feat. after all, I'm sure kenny g "feels" john Coltrane, just as ronan might "feel" underground resistance and vanilla ice might "feel" public enemy. but i'm certain that just as a white man from Ireland cannot truly understand the soul of a black man from Detroit, so too cannot a black man from Detroit truly understand the egypto-Saturnian soul of a man like sun ra.

and this is theft. I hate it when people release a track that sounds like it was produced, mixed and pressed by a deaf sloth, on single-sided vinyl- then re-release it years later. talk about turning shit into gold/laughing all the way to the bank.

xpost LOL

in fact, seeing as my wife is Egyptian (unlike sun ra), and her father is from alexandria, and thus (unlike sun ra) a true pharoanic African, and I myself am (unlike sun ra) a real-life Ra, that is, a father of pharoahs, I call bullshit on sun ra.