The King Crimson studio album poll

I still listen to them all the time too!

today, even

damn dude, i'll have to grab those
70's Crimson had so much talent but I always felt many of their albums could have been better

yeah those KC comps showed me the glory of KC. live stuff is probably my favorite, so a sequel would be raddddd.

I will add it to this weekend's activities then!

This is reminding me I had a dream about them last night, where in the back of a crowded auditorium some fellow had a turntable set up with some gatefold KC lp I'd never seen called "Sailor", from 1985, but looking to be from 74, with three long tracks on each side. The songs were so long, in fact, that the track timings listed all of side two with a total duration of about 58 minutes. The groove cramming caused the tone arm to skate sort of randomly over the side as it played, and in dream logic I realized I was looking at a cat swishing its tail over the record, who then leapt into my arms and purred the rhythm of the Frippertronic heavy track that was playing. Of course I was shocked and asked the man if he saw that, to which he seemed merely uninterested, like it happened all the time. I swore it wasn't a hallucination, although in truth I hadn't been getting enough sleep. Then I awoke sharply with Jane Wiedlin's "Rush Hour" in my head for the next thirty minutes.

Thanks a bunch for those comps, Sparkle! I forgot how bizarre "Happy Family" was. Those vocals are completely mutilated - it doesn't sound like the CD I have. Which version of Lizard did you pull that from?

i think in the wake of poseiden is underrated

Hey glad you're enjoying them. I've begun to relisten to them again myself...that 'Happy Family' is from the 40th anniversary stereo remaster (remember there's also a 5.1) of Lizard, on DGM. The distorted vocals (run through a VCS3 if I'm not mistaken) are original, they just sound 10x cooler than previous editions.

Of course, picking up the pieces of the live comps has proved to be an ever-expanding enterprise. Pretty sure I could put out 3 more without scrambling for material.

One thing this has proved to me is that listening to KC always makes me feel better.

listened to disc 3 of those sparkle motion comps yesterday. some monstrous jamz.

That is my absolute favorite desert island KC on that one, Asbury Park being an especially badass jam.

yeah, it's ridiculous. only other bands that sounded remotely like that were maybe Can and Miles Davis' agharta group.

Aw hell I'm just gonna say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMYCQa5keaI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9pawHmGcy8&feature=related

Whoa, I did not know that Ian Wallace played on Street Legal.

yeah i remember dylan's bass player said he had "a beat like a cop." i think it was derogatory, but i'm not sure exactly what he meant.

No shit dude, you hire a drummer from Crimso, they're gonna be fucking heavy.

i think wallace played with dylan a bit in the 90s too?

The distorted vocals (run through a VCS3 if I'm not mistaken) are original, they just sound 10x cooler than previous editions.

I remember them sounding very ugly on the CD I had (which was one of the earlier ones). They're still ugly but now they sound kind of scary too. I don't know, I've listened to Lizard a lot and both this and "Cirkus" sound different from what I remember, I may just need to pick up the new remaster.
I'm glad someone dug out the great jams '73 and '74 Crimson did, because personally I feel like Starless & Bible Black is kind of a dud. I'll never understand why they were happy releasing it like that when it was clear they could do so much better. I'm not a fan of the ConstruKction of Light but the 3-disc live album released at that time has a bunch of awesome improv stuff on it, their best in such a long time.

Loved your writeup on the records, frogbs, but I just totally disagree on S&BB -- it's one of the few records where the breakdown between songs/instrumentals works. Plus, the "record it live and then edit the shit out of it in the studio" approach is awesome and ballsy. Toward that end, "Fracture" is probably my favorite/most thrilling thing ever by the group, period.

As for Lizard, the reason you're hearing something different is bc it wasn't only remastered -- but also remixed by Steve Wilson from Porcupine Tree. I think there's a link to an interview with him somewhere upthread where he discusses how much he loved Lizard as a kid and for this project painstakingly synced up the original multitracks (which had been bounced to stereo multiple times before they were originally mixed) to bring out the dynamic range and details in the mix. I've only heard "Cirkus" and "Happy Family" from these mixes, but they do sound awesome.

Are you talking about the Listology article? I dunno, I always meant to go back and give S&BB a good re-listen. I had most of those ratings figured out about 6 years ago, when KC was the only prog group I knew. I just remember a lot of the improv bits pissing me off because I knew the group could do so much better. I mean just listen to "Larks Tongues in Aspic Part One" - I know it's not really improvised, but I felt like they could kick out so many more pieces like that. "Fracture" is indeed a ride but I always felt it was just really, really long.

May have to go relisten to Lizard now though. I've always been very torn on that record since it took me such a long time to get into it on any level, but this new mix sounds like it emphasizes the bizarre atmosphere of the record which IMO is really the big "selling" point as the album is so ugly otherwise.

And I hate how "The Mincer" just cuts off like that!! Yeah it's avant-garde as fuck but it's still obnoxious!

Pretty sure the Mincer is as such due to a failure in the recording process--the Law of Maximum Distress Pt 1 & 2 surround it, imperfectly. I'm working on Frankensteining them back together.

really think Lizard is unfairly hated on. "Cirkus" is one of my favorite KC tracks. and of course the Jon Anderson sung finale...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjkSmV_Gtw0

They really should have indexed the Jon Anderson part of "Lizard" serperately. It would make such an awesome single by itself!

frogbs, naive teen idol, check yr webmail

Thanks a bunch man. I'd really love to get into that album again. All my real memories of it were when I bought the actual LP which was slightly warped and blasted it out of this massive wooden radio deck that I got for free. Somehow the CD never did it for me.

Listening to Volume 4 of those sets - first song is "Sleepless" and I could just think "oh yeah, that happened", then remembered how incredible the Absent Lovers live album was. This band was good but it never should have been called "King Crimson"

As I'm sure you know, Fripp intended to call the band Discipline, but was talked out of it by Belew. Regardless I suspect it had more to do ultimately with Brand Recognition, same as calling that Jakzyk/Collins/Fripp mess "a King Crimson Projekct"--no one would buy it otherwise. With that newest thing, I hope no one would buy it in either case.

You know though I've been listening alot to the 2000 band, and though I've repeated ad nauseum my misgivings about that group, they make the most legitimate claim to being the true successor to the 73-74 group. Their improvs are, at their best, thrilling and scary, and present a Crim venturing into strange territory.

thrilling, scary, and strange -- tell me more!

same as calling that Jakzyk/Collins/Fripp mess "a King Crimson Projekct"--no one would buy it otherwise

Totally agreed on the 2000 Crim, as I said before that Heavy ConstruKction live set is such a beast, definitely their best improv since the early days. For whatever reason the double trio improv always struck me as very aimless, with everyone afraid to step on anyone elses toes, but the 4-piece sans Levin and Beuford was great. Sadly they just could not write songs at all and that's why they get a bad rap. I mean look at the album - take out the joke tunes and the retreads of old material and you're left with "Into the Frying Pan" (which is great though)

I mentioned it on a different Crimson thread, but while I totally agree the double trio was aimless, the version I saw most recently with two drums, two guitars but just one bass - Pat, drummer dude from Porcupine Tree, Levin, Fripp, Belew - was totally on fire.

hxxp://avaxhome.ws/music/rock/progressive_rock/1820588.html (incl. a not exactly egal-lay download)

I don't think anyone bought it anyway. I mean compare this with the hype for the new Yes album, or even the lastest by Van der Graaf Generator. I would imagine if the album was any good that people would be interested.

Well, okay, let me clarify by saying I feel that way about the double trio in 1994 and 1995. The first disc of the VROOOM VROOOM live set is from 1996 and it rules, like they found out how to stop getting in each others way and just bash out all the tunes. And then they split. Oh well

Did anyone ever read Bruford's autobiography? I always got the impression that he just got tired of working with RF and took off.
Agreed that VROOOM DEUCE is great--compare the ferocity of the performances to the B'BOOOM set at the start of the tour. It's really a shame they didn't make anything worthwhile in the studio out of it.

I'm sure that Fripp is a big jerk. But for some reason I was under the impression that Buford was a jerk, too. Maybe incompatible jerks?

I don't know if Fripp is a jerk so much as he is anal-retentive.
I just pictured Captain Beefheart being strict with the people he worked with. Could it be that Fripp is no different than Beefheart?

That's probably more accurate.

I always got the impression that he just got tired of working with RF and took off.

I think it wasn't so much Fripp but rock music in general he got tired of. He just wanted to play jazz.

bruford's comments on the ABWH and Union tour that are on wiki (which are from his autobiography I think) are kind of amusing.

From Bruford's FAQ:

Why are you no longer playing with King Crimson?
First, because I can think of nothing to add, and second, because I have other things to do. Pat Mastelotto has the gig well covered. As a member of the band for some 25 years off and on, I found the experience challenging, innovative, and exasperating in equal measure, and I wouldn't have changed a moment of it. I learned lots about music, and my place in it, over the years, and was lucky enough to participate in some concerts that neither audience nor musicians will be likely to forget in a hurry. Somewhere around the turn of the millennium it became obvious to me that I had achieved all I was likely to achieve in the mighty Crim.

I have also been keen to get back to the vernacular of jazz, not as a tourist, but as a full time committed member, and the second edition of Earthworks opened up full throttle in 1998. To make progress in the one demanded renouncing the other.

I can respect that.

Always love Bruford's comment about when he first joined KC, that it was the only band that when he joined he was given a reading list.

whoah I missed this revive

please email me, Sparkle Motion!

((me too))

No probs dudes, anyone else who wants a further education in advanced lizard studies let me know

Did any of these anniversary reissues include liner notes? My feeling is that Fripp's own stories about the making of these records (based on Steve Wilson's experience w Fripp in the studio remixing them) would be gold.

I just pulled out my copy of the Young Person's Guide booklet--which is a compendium of reviews, articles and Fripp diary entries from 69-76 (the only item I've ever stolen -- I stuck the booklet in a copy of Red I was going to buy)--and was just stunned at what an exciting and hilarious read it is.

I've only read the liner notes to Red. It was informative, but didn't contain any personal reminiscences that I can remember.

I just pulled out my copy of the Young Person's Guide booklet--which is a compendium of reviews, articles and Fripp diary entries from 69-76 (the only item I've ever stolen -- I stuck the booklet in a copy of Red I was going to buy)--and was just stunned at what an exciting and hilarious read it is

Yes, that was the first KC album I ever bought and I love that booklet as well. I like the way he answers back to negative reviews. IIRC the same text (but not the photos) was used for the booklet in the Great Deceiver box set.