“20” – U2 TRACKS POLL (voting closes midday, Thursday 4 August)

I feel a little bad I hosed a lot of the early stuff on my ballot, since it meant a lot to me at one point, but Fire/Joshua Tree/Achtung/Zooropa are my adult faves by far.

xpost Actually, in part to humor Larry, the click tracks the band/producers use, as such, are usually in the form of percussion, tambourines, etc, that often even get left in the final mixes. They're organic, not just some drum machine pittering away.

Once again re: Marr et al., what Marr was saying about Keith Richards and "Jumping Jack Flash" was not at all that he had Keith's playing in mind, but specifically that when it came to "Bigmouth" he wanted to write a rousing, unabashed anthem in the vein of "Jumping Jack Flash." I mean, almost every guitarist is influenced by Keith, to some degree, but Marr is not really that guy. Edge, on the other hand, is, especially when it comes to his "lead rhythm" approach (which is also not unlike that of Pete Townshend). Just saying. It's kind of a pointless point of contention, anyway.

Per Larry, I think lots of drummers would notice odd shifts in tempo and stuff, but given the guy's largely been relegated to timekeeping mode, I can imagine he's more sensitive than most. The click track, btw, is less for the drummer and more for the rest of the guys, who may be working on overdubs or redoing parts separate from the drum tracks. The click lets them all sync up smooth when they mix the whole track together.

Bono's proclamations on "official" live tracks are ripe for results thread title, e.g. "Sing this with me, this is 40 top U2 songs".

I say "sing this with me, this is 40" entirely too often for my own scrutability by, well, anyone at this point.

I just sent my ballot, and hope that a few of you made room for, well, "Your Blue Room."

not much of a song, but it's a nice atmosphere

DOn't know that song, but is the title another Bowie reference?

Thanks for the click track explanation btw Josh.

he wanted to write a rousing, unabashed anthem in the vein of "Jumping Jack Flash."
IIRC he refered to this song as the kind of comeback/return song he wanted Bigmouth to be.

ah, from wikipedia:

Johnny Marr is said to have wanted an explosive, searing single, along the lines of The Rolling Stones' "Jumpin' Jack Flash", to announce that The Smiths had returned from hiatus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS4hJabqRc4

Your Blue Room is a Passengers song and it's one of my favourite discoveries here. I'm afraid I cut it late on though. 'Nobody else is going to like that', I thought.

If someone said that the first 3 tracks from The Joshua Tree were their 3 favourite tracks then I would not feel able or willing to argue with them, at all.

I think that by my own particular lights, which I have no desire to shine harshly in others' eyes, they may be the greatest 'first 3 tracks' ever to appear on an LP in the pop era.

"With Or Without You" wrecked me this morning; it had been years since I'd listened to it, but what a track, so strange sounding a single, as the band knew well. I thought of your points re. the Irishness of the band when listening to the synths in the opening of the song this morning, pinefox.

Those synths introduced Brian Eno to a lot of people.

"Your Blue Room" live...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1RBxyTeanI

synths? I thought the whistling melody at the start was the Infinite Guitar; unless you mean the beautiful tinkling sound.

to Josh in Chicago: sure, Marr said that specifically about 'Bigmouth'. But that's just one instance of his attitude to Keith Richards. Look up any interview asking who his favourite guitarists are. I don't think there's much doubt that KR would be a model for him. This is not controversial stuff. It's what you Americans call 'Marr 101', or maybe '102' or '202' or whatever (we do not have these educational terms in my country).

To be sure, we can also name as major guitarists for Marr Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Nils Lofgren (am I imagining that?), Roger McGuinn, Bert Jansch, and others. But not, I think, The Edge.

btw also, Bono wrote 'silver & gold' after an encounter with KR and, I think, Ron Wood where he realized he 'didn't have any songs' and missed the rest of the band. (I think it was a bit feeble of him not to have reflected more on his own band's particularity pre-1985/6.)

To be sure, we can also name as major guitarists for Marr Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Nils Lofgren (am I imagining that?), Roger McGuinn, Bert Jansch, and others. But not, I think, The Edge.

John McGeoch! Marr has said so himself.

If it's the Infinite Guitar I'm thinking of (I'm not sure), then that's even more in comport with your point, since it would be the Edge & not Eno behind it.

I know the high, piercing notes are guitar; I'm talking about those swirls that are obviously keyboards adorning the verses.

Having said the above, I should turn around, think again and add: listening to Keith Richards doesn't really give you much of an idea what Johnny Marr sounds like.

One of JM's distinctions is that, though he was so classicist and in a sense derivative, I can't think of ANY prior guitarist that sounds like his great work -- the sound is a new signature. And I think the same is true of The Edge, for all the accusations of derivativeness etc that were thrown at him.

btw also, Bono wrote 'silver & gold' after an encounter with KR and, I think, Ron Wood where he realized he 'didn't have any songs' and missed the rest of the band. (I think it was a bit feeble of him not to have reflected more on his own band's particularity pre-1985/6.)

Not quite. "Silver And Gold" was written for Artists United Against Apartheid Sun City album and the original recording on that album is Bono + Richards + Wood. U2 later recorded their own version of it.

I was thinking of the both the high notes that evidently are guitar & the swirls; I don't have enough of a muso ear to tell the difference.

during the opening & opening verse, I mean

Yeah, that's Infinite Guitar at the start of "With or Without You," which was invented by Michael Brook and Daniel Lanois (roomates at the time), and which actual gets a credit in the liners of "The Joshua Tree." Though to be fair, it's not that different in concept from Frippertronics.

Marr also big ups James Honeyman-Scott a lot. This website is killer: http://www.smithsonguitar.com/

"“The main thing I took from Keith Richards was his musical ideology; that there is a nobility in playing rhythm guitar and being the engine room and steering the ship, all these very valorous concepts which he threw in the face of guitar culture in the early ’70s.”"

Elvis, I have the Sun City tape with the original version, though can't say I've played it much -- I still think the story is true, unless it's not.

Then there's the great U2 studio version whose solo is different again from the also fantastic 'play the blues' solo of R&H.

by 'solo' I mean 'lead guitar to fade'

I need to hear that again now.

Rare unexpected Edge guitar noise terrorism, btw, at the end of "One Tree Hill."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BK2MhvQiBo

Another thing I didn't vote for: I've really been digging A Man And A Woman. It would grace Electronic, speaking of Johnny Marr.

I just sent my ballot, and hope that a few of you made room for, well, "Your Blue Room."
--livin in my own private Biden hole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

I was tempted to make it my #1 just to give it a chance to chart. Nice to see I'm not alone in affection for this one.

& now I hear the little tinkling arpeggios more clearly---I'd never fixed on them before but now they're so loud.

I need to learn to listen to music as closely as you all.

Lots of Edge/U2/Sinead soundtrack collabs: "Heroine," "You Made Me the Thief of Your Heart," "I'm Not Your Baby" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiWZ5bzcdaM&feature=related

the tinkling whatever they ares (keyboard I would think) are one of my favourite things in pop history.

I don't really like 'your blue room' but I quite like the very off-centre solo at the end (when I think Adam C talks).

I think 'one tree hill' is a bit botched, as a production - interesting things are buried, like the Edge playing the blues. It came out, for me, a bit more clearly when I heard the version they did on new year's eve 1989 and the Edge played those blue notes a bit more frontally. I like the track (it's in my top 20!) but really think it's muddy and a bit underachieved. I walked through St Stephen's Green listening to it last month and confirmed this view.

'a man and a woman' is a rarity, a late U2 LP track with real character, distinction; catchy, poppy, dramatic, corny -- very good indeed, I think, and slightly lost in most accounts of their career. I think there's a Yeats touch, as Buck Mulligan says, on it somewhere. 'Soul needs beauty for a soulmate' and, if I remember aright, 'rent' as in ripped?

Lots of good Edge guitar leads here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2kWgm-0xmM

What I've always liked about Marr is that even though he's open about his influences (sometimes explicitly so) it's never too obvious unless you trace it backwards. "The Queen Is Dead" title track was apparently a direct spin-off from VU's "I Can't Stand It" but I never would have guessed that until Marr pointed it out in an interview. Now it makes sense.

Seriously, check out that website I linked to. It has song by song descriptions of what he claims to be copping, and rarely does the final product sound anything like what he claims to be ripping off!

if that 'one tree hill' is the new year's eve one (at the Point) then that's nice.

the 'one tree botched' idea would support my other larger sense that The Joshua Tree is oddly experimental / improvised / live / organic / rough for a massive selling international #1 LP -- obviously Eno / Lanois the obvious explanation.

(though this thing can happen with oddly big records - in a different way, BORN IN THE USA is strangely rough too, for its status)

Then there's the great U2 studio version whose solo is different again from the also fantastic 'play the blues' solo of R&H.

Yeah, it's on the b-side to the "Where The Streets Have No Name" single. That version of S&G actually got some airplay - certainly here in LA.

Seriously, check out that website I linked to.

I'm well familiar with that website... Was going to post it here, but you beat me to it.

Guitar on that 'One Tree Hill' sounds very Will Sergeant to me.

Like, "How Soon is Now?" is apparently CCR/Gun Club's "Run Through the Jungle" plus Can's "I Want More," plus Bo Diddley, plus these two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7XBDaodo1g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3tuJ4qFmxY

!!!

Anyway, sorry to derail.

"True love never can be rent
But only true love can keep beauty innocent"

is meant to be Yeatsian, I'm sure.

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/a-man-and-a-woman-lyrics-u2/4f73f1112f2ecf0c48256f2000063ddf

Elvis, I'm playing the B-side 'silver & gold' now.
I like the guitars on it a lot.
It was never a big thing here, prior to the film showing the song off.

I'm really just waiting for the solo.

someone should stick up for 'race against time'.

There's also a 'rent from this land'/'rent the soil' (or something like that) in Van Diemen's Land

Isn't the word 'tear'?

tear their hands as they tear the soil.

S&G: The solo starts about 4:16 then fades.

Josh, I went to Simon Goddard talking about Smiths in 2005, and he laboriously went through these influences - piling them up but each time he'd repeat the whole list of what they were. It was sort of educational for me, nonetheless.

Part of the point no doubt is: you try to sound like X and end up sounding like Q, and that's creativity.

'Mona', though, is an OBVIOUS reference point - via the take on THE ROLLING STONES' first LP, featuring guess who. I heard that in 1994 and thought I'd happened on the secret source of 'how soon is now?'.

Really wanted to vote for Paul McGuinness as the worst song/aspect of U2.

Isn't the word 'tear'?

¡Ay! (though there is also a 'to be rent from one so dear', thank goodness)

The click track, btw, is less for the drummer and more for the rest of the guys, who may be working on overdubs or redoing parts separate from the drum tracks. The click lets them all sync up smooth when they mix the whole track together.

While I was composing my top 20 list last night I was listening to a recording of the in-ear monitor feed from the Denver show this year (it's on D1m3 if you want to hear) and was shocked at just how much clicking/countdowning is going on. Hell, on "Even Better Than The Real Thing" and "Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me" there are countdowns to the chord changes. I wanted to shout out "c'mon guys, you know how to play this" at them.

Yeah, though, it's like the national anthem in a stadium: you may think you know it, and you may know it, but factor in acoustics, noise, flashing lights, fans, and it's a wonder these dudes don't screw up more often. I saw Paul McCartney on Sunday, and he joked about how he looks out from the stage and sees all the signs and has to focus: "Paul, don't read the signs!" Then he gives in and starts to read the signs, anyway. And then he messes up or flubs a lyric.

I'm not familiar with the website you mention, but try a recording of U2 at Wembley 8.1993: they're on 'real thing' and during the solo Clayton casually forgets a whole load of bars, goes into the solo and makes the Edge discordant and scrambling to find a new way to get back to the song without it all collapsing.

later Bono goes into the chorus of 'babyface' while it's the verse, and spends the rest of the line pretending it's a new alternative verse

etc

let me say that I have a lot of time for Josh in Chicago who buys expensive tickets to U2 and Paul McCartney. This is what one should do.

But U2 are very very different from Macca - he's always been a pro, never really made a mistake in 50 years, whereas U2, however long they go, can't get it together. It's one of the real oddities of the band, how they can't play their own songs without basic errors.