“20” – U2 TRACKS POLL (voting closes midday, Thursday 4 August)

BTW Johnny Marr has talked of growing up surrounded by trad Irish music
and people have made a lot of 'please please please' etc and tried to say he's an Irish guitarist

but really this pales next to the Edge - the comparison shows how marginal the influence is on Marr
it's like in the Edge that really DID happen
wasn't just a critical fantasy.

That's interesting, I'll open my ears for that. It's more than that the effects he uses bring to mind a kind of pipey/flutey celtic atmosphere, I take it?

I also wondered about them treating faith as a fundamental, serious question; certainly with religion early on but throughout their career in various ways I suppose. It seems to me, though I can't really think of an equivalent, that British bands would not have camped on that territory in that way.

Yes, IK, it is the notes he plays.

And yes, the 'faith' business works from an Irish background (ie: you can get away with it) as it wouldn't here - I think that's a good observation.

Bono has done all this 'reading the Gospels together' business with extreme right-wing US senators. I wonder if he has done the same with the surely less malign Cliff Richard?

Well, I suppose the Edge did cop a bit from the Skids, who were not Irish but whose music did glimmer with a little bit of that stuff. But really, it seems to me the Irish stuff, what there was, went out after "War." Unlike a band like, say, Midnight Oil, which remained Aussie-centric til the end.

I can't think of two more different guitarists than Johnny Marr and the Edge, in almost every single regard.

If you mean Irish stuff disappears in lyrics, images, etc, yes

(though lots of exceptions: Van Diemen's Land, Please, Peace On Earth, Hands That Built America, Breathe)

If you mean it disappears from the guitars as I tried to suggest, then obviously I disagree

I could think of many, many guitarists more different from each other than Marr and the Edge, in many significant regards.

I think the Edge himself makes this fairly clear on the Yentob Imagine video that's on youtube, where he says there are gunslingers vs sidemen, the latter are about 'supporting the whole song', and aligns himself with Keith Richards & Marr in this group.

I think he is broadly correct here (in fact so much so that it's a bit of a truism, a bit of an easy unsurprising victory, like a lot of what the Edge says)

I don't mean his general role, I mean his style. I would align Edge with Keith, sure, but not Marr, at all. Nor would I align Keith with Marr, either. That's just crazy talk. Though I concede all three do play guitars.

The people that I hear in the Edge's guitar playing are Tom Verlaine (especicially in the earlier stuff e.g. check out the solo in 'Another Time, Another Place') and John Martyn (don't know if they used any of the same gear, but some of Martyn's echoplex stuff certainly has sonic similarities to the Edge circa The Unforgettable Fire)

Marr has always said, for about 25 years, that KR is his model of the guitar player, and that kind of thing. Undoubtedly he sees himself as in that bracket or tradition. He could hardly have been more explicit about it - he called 'Bigmouth' 'my Jumping Jack Flash'. I think the way KR moves between rhythm and lead (an old guitarist friend once told me that KR had made the distinction redundant) is pertinent.

In fact I think Marr and KR are closer than they are to The Edge. Mainly because Marr had a bit more of a blues / rock / twang tradition in his play ('nowhere fast', 'vicar in a tutu', 'queen is dead' etc) at a time when the Edge seemed more about purity of scales and textures (though the Edge did later join the rhythm & blues party somewhat with 'the Fly' etc).

Is Bono attractive? Seeing him as a young man I can totally imagine that the hair, the passion and the charisma would make men want to be him. But would women want him? He's been getting ropier since, I can see that.

Going to say no, not really. Appealing in some way, sure, but not attractive. His hair was horrible, he's self-absorbed, and like I said before, I could never get over feeling betrayed by the terrible lyrics on Achtung Baby. Larry was (and let's face it, remains) pretty hot. My choice was always The Edge (TM). He's quiet, thoughtful, skilled, and not prone to embarrassing himself.

Also, he goes by a pseudonym: THE EDGE

Dave 'take me to the Edge of' Evans

hahahaha
I put Van Diemen's Land on my list, I'll put it that way.

he also sang 'seconds'

and seems to have written most of 'Sunday Bloody Sunday' according to that film?

and he 'sang' 'Numb'

and ... ?

he's actually quite a good singer considering all the things he does at the same time

whereas Bono is one of the worst guitar players ever to be a rock star and pretend to be able to play guitar.

see, he's the best

How come nobody's mentioned Adam? I'd've thought he & Larry have this all sewn up.

Has everyone seen that Brian Eno quote about Larry Mullen's timekeeping (before I go looking through old popbitch emails for it)?

nope

Here it is:

Brian Eno told a story about U2 drummer, Larry Mullen. When he was producing All That You Can't Leave Behind, Eno gave Mullen a click track (computer generated beat) to play drums over, as a way of keeping everything in synch. Mullen swore the click track wasn't right, and refused to play over it. Eventually Eno adjusted it - but just to humour the drummer, as he knew it couldn't be at fault. Except he later found Mullen was right. The click was off - by six milliseconds!

"The thing is," said Eno, "when we were adjusting it I once had it two milliseconds to the wrong side of the beat, and he said, 'No, you've got to come back a bit.' Which I think is absolutely staggering."

wau!

Yep. For the curious, the original source is the New Yorker, April 25, 2011 issue.

I like that.

I like Larry's seriousness, his simplicity, a kind of puritan focus that is also youthful or childlike.

Might be a daft question, but if he was so shit hot, why did he need a click track?

it sounds like eno was foisting it on him

he of little faith in the robotic shit hottness of larry mullen

If I had a head like yours I'd bleedin' bury it

I was reading about Larry and click tracks last night! He never used one 'til he was convinced to do so by Andy Newmark from Sly & The Family Stone, who swore by them. I still don't think he likes it though.

Nate's story is better.

Yeah I was reading that story this morning too, it's on the wikipedia entry for Boy or October, I think. It's what reminded me of the Eno story.

On the other hand, Adam went for bass lessons in the mid 90s

my wife still has a mad crush on Bono; I find this unfathomable

Ha! I was working in a record store when the tree album came out, and I had a huge crush on my manager, and she had a schoolgirl-swoon crush on Bono--she was like Elaine's "Desperado"-loving boyfriend whenever we played it in the store, completely zoned out and oblivious to the world. I'm sure that contributed greatly to my U2 problem.

Hey ladies

http://www.wnd.com/images2/bono.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Mp_K0c6kJkk/Tb2e8f71gBI/AAAAAAAACPQ/QnSI-M6DLs8/s400/bono.jpg
http://www.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/bono.jpg

he looks like robin williams in bad convenience store sunglasses

STILL, I understand the raw power of a residual schoolgirl crush. I do.

24 hours to go, and 31 ballots received. Well, 29 and two runts. So vote, and vote now.

Excellent stuff, but still plenty of scope for change. Not that I've done an interim count or anything, but my feeling is that it's pretty close between half-a-dozen tracks at the top. There certainly won't be a runaway winner.

I'm still going through my absurd relisten to their entire catalog, including most b-sides, remixes, & a few live albums also. It's a lot of material! Some of it's really good! Much is so-so, as you'd expect from a band in its fourth decade. I'm guessing my ballot is more or less finalized now, but I'm still moving songs around, with a big change this morning after relistening to 1987's finest.

I promise to be underwhelmed if your top three is the opening three tracks from The Joshua Tree, in order.

I've never liked "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For". No relistens can redeem ending a sentence with a preposition.

There was a tv show on the ten-year anniversary of Live-Aid and they interviewed the girl Bono pulled from the audience. She was pretty embarrassed about it, didn't seem to have been too happy about being picked and complained about Bono being "all sweaty."

really regretting not putting 'an cat dubh/into the heart' on my ballot. Been listening to 'Boy' today a lot and it's just magnificent.

Speaking of that, I hope people are giving "Twilight" its proper respect on their ballots.

i did!

I feel a little bad I hosed a lot of the early stuff on my ballot, since it meant a lot to me at one point, but Fire/Joshua Tree/Achtung/Zooropa are my adult faves by far.

xpost Actually, in part to humor Larry, the click tracks the band/producers use, as such, are usually in the form of percussion, tambourines, etc, that often even get left in the final mixes. They're organic, not just some drum machine pittering away.

Once again re: Marr et al., what Marr was saying about Keith Richards and "Jumping Jack Flash" was not at all that he had Keith's playing in mind, but specifically that when it came to "Bigmouth" he wanted to write a rousing, unabashed anthem in the vein of "Jumping Jack Flash." I mean, almost every guitarist is influenced by Keith, to some degree, but Marr is not really that guy. Edge, on the other hand, is, especially when it comes to his "lead rhythm" approach (which is also not unlike that of Pete Townshend). Just saying. It's kind of a pointless point of contention, anyway.

Per Larry, I think lots of drummers would notice odd shifts in tempo and stuff, but given the guy's largely been relegated to timekeeping mode, I can imagine he's more sensitive than most. The click track, btw, is less for the drummer and more for the rest of the guys, who may be working on overdubs or redoing parts separate from the drum tracks. The click lets them all sync up smooth when they mix the whole track together.

Bono's proclamations on "official" live tracks are ripe for results thread title, e.g. "Sing this with me, this is 40 top U2 songs".

I say "sing this with me, this is 40" entirely too often for my own scrutability by, well, anyone at this point.

I just sent my ballot, and hope that a few of you made room for, well, "Your Blue Room."

not much of a song, but it's a nice atmosphere

DOn't know that song, but is the title another Bowie reference?

Thanks for the click track explanation btw Josh.

he wanted to write a rousing, unabashed anthem in the vein of "Jumping Jack Flash."
IIRC he refered to this song as the kind of comeback/return song he wanted Bigmouth to be.

ah, from wikipedia:

Johnny Marr is said to have wanted an explosive, searing single, along the lines of The Rolling Stones' "Jumpin' Jack Flash", to announce that The Smiths had returned from hiatus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS4hJabqRc4

Your Blue Room is a Passengers song and it's one of my favourite discoveries here. I'm afraid I cut it late on though. 'Nobody else is going to like that', I thought.

If someone said that the first 3 tracks from The Joshua Tree were their 3 favourite tracks then I would not feel able or willing to argue with them, at all.

I think that by my own particular lights, which I have no desire to shine harshly in others' eyes, they may be the greatest 'first 3 tracks' ever to appear on an LP in the pop era.