Sasha on Shadow, Diplo, Eminem & Minstrelsy

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and pain!

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:00 (twenty years ago)

Maybe not sound deep but sounds cooler because most don't have the slightest idea what they're talking about. That can equally apply to rap slang. "I can't understand it, therefore it must be awesome! And I can totally bounce my booty like I see in videos! I'm being so wild today!"

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

but dipset got that crack! peep game candicissima! holla!

― 8, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

Yeah..right.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:08 (twenty years ago)

"conflate the diplo and dipset phenoms"=the title track of aesop rock's new album

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:09 (twenty years ago)

sorry i am not actually interested in this shit

― 5, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:12 (twenty years ago)

haha forks yes!

i guess i cant get past the assumption that listening to music, even alone, cubicle listening, im always thinking of other ppl, or of listening w them, doing shit w them

8 really otm abt crack. theres been such heated talk abt sex and misogny and males and violence, and race, but ive never noticed ppl acknowledging the appeal there, or exploring it

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:16 (twenty years ago)

actually i was just tryna write bout how fucked up 'got that crack' is for a nonstop internet nerd endorsment of ppl who dont give a fuck about what crack actually does

― 4, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:21 (twenty years ago)

Where did nine go?

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:25 (twenty years ago)

OMG!

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:25 (twenty years ago)

7 ate 9!

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:26 (twenty years ago)

There are so many numbers here, its like a season of sesame street or some shit. (Sterling and #s are mostly otm. I also like 006's point right after sterling dropped the bomb.)

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:31 (twenty years ago)

i just meant ive never seen anyone call it out cept you, when it seems integral to them, to me, rt now im assuming its like some feelin of, the 1st rule of dealin is never dip into ur own stash, nihilism, but i dunno

not that there arent ppl talking abt some crack romanticism in or particular to dipset or whatever, just like i dont remember any

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:31 (twenty years ago)

Man kris exo made a bunch of these points about dipset back when purple haze dropped and i dont remember anyone on ilm paying attention.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

Not that I'm blaming anybody, just giving credit where due.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

yeah kris contradicts himself a lil too much (like any good writer!)but the 10% of the time hes on point nobody else doin this rap critic shit even matters

― 3, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:39 (twenty years ago)

anyway i just found that now but i didnt have a computer when he wrote it!

― 3, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:39 (twenty years ago)

Were you watching our eyes or something, deej? Just cuz you don't write "preach on, prophet" in the comments box doesn't mean you aren't reading.

I was happier that he was repping for Ludacris, really.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:40 (twenty years ago)

I've heard that argument a million times. Then again, I ignore most things critics say, so what do I know?

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:40 (twenty years ago)

And I don't think anybody has dibs on "crack is bad."

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:41 (twenty years ago)

Miccio take it easy, thats why I said "not that i'm blaming anybody, just giving credit where it's due."

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:42 (twenty years ago)

i dunno that was standard in late 90s underground set i ran w/ but i dunno how much theyre sayin it bout the current hipster blog rap fam now, nobody in rap gives a fuck

― 3, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:42 (twenty years ago)

sorry, deej, just "giving credit where it's due" sounds like he's being sampled or something. It's an open G chord, you know?

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:43 (twenty years ago)

Yeah dude aside from Whitney Houston I haven't heard to many crack putdowns in a minute.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:44 (twenty years ago)

cuz if you wanna find bad influences on ppl w/o blogs youll go for a crew who sold more than 30k copies of their last album

― 3, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:44 (twenty years ago)

Did Dipset really not sell more that? Roffles. That's pathetic.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:45 (twenty years ago)

Miccio I think all I'm saying is, (and i'm guilty of this too, i reviewed purple haze and focused more on its absurd linguistic content) that when Purple Haze dropped it would have been nice to hear more people calling Cam on that shit. I don't know of anyone outside of Exo. (And J Shepard calling him on the sexism, as well)

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:45 (twenty years ago)

that mightve been the only time i read kris! i read him some time, on some point, im def not claiming to be mr original at any rate

which argument candicissima? if your talking abt what i sd, i meant specific to the dipset pro and con, altho i dont think i made that clear, still im sure theres some great shit abt rap and drugs, which is why i ws trying to be so hesitant

how abt on crack is good?

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:45 (twenty years ago)

does cam'ron have a monopoly on crack rap?

― vahid (vahid), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

We're not talking about what the subject matter is, vahid, we're talking about how he is about it.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:49 (twenty years ago)

It's probably cuz a lot of people think crack is funny. Chris Rock admits it - it's just a fun word to say. They don't think about it as a reality thing, just this New Jack City shit. Maybe people should be more earnest about the glamorization of its dealers: Take Back The Crack!

That means no Clipse for you, of course.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:50 (twenty years ago)

xpost The crack romanticism factor, 006. Aren't there like books about that? I feel like it might have been touched on in one of Bakari Kitwana's at least. There was a reference to it in Hip The History -- at least to the romanticism of the urban outlaw. I think I remember a freaking Voice cover story not too many moons ago having to do with 50 Cent or something with those issues. Maybe not in regards to Dipset in particular, but it's a pretty well mined topic.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:50 (twenty years ago)

As in, he is particularly unrepentent. Or rather, the sexism simply exists within the work uncritiqued, the crack-culture simply exists as a means to an aesthetic/macho end. I still like the album! I'm probably a bad person for it. Hah. But its something that should have at least been engaged w by critics, ilm, etc.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:51 (twenty years ago)

Miccio, the Clipse's engagement with crack/drug culture is WAY more complex than it is for Cam'ron dipset et al.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:52 (twenty years ago)

Engaged by critics, ILM usually means people go "hmm, yes, its bad" and then describe how they ignore it because like they like the music or artist or how they don't because they don't enjoy the music or artist. Nobody really seems to think people SHOULD be glamourizing crack.

x-post: nevermind! some people find complexity.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:54 (twenty years ago)

xpost It's probably cuz a lot of people think crack is funny.

Anthony is wrong today. But right about that being a totally ILM thing to say.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:55 (twenty years ago)

Hey, I didn't say they were RIGHT to! But you can't deny it's a common joke. You told me to put the pipe down in my comments box the other day.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:56 (twenty years ago)

I think crack is disassociated from its actual social connotations because its such a pop culture cliche.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:57 (twenty years ago)

Well, Jon Carmaniaca said something like this in his purple haze review: "The avant garde does not have to be moral." Is that sort of what we're debating here? I donno I'm jus throwing it out there.

re: the clipse, you may not be convinced by their complexity, but for me the clipse have a lot more (rather non-specific) stories to tell about crack than dipset do, and they dont wear it as a badge, they engage with it.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:57 (twenty years ago)

xp i remember reading that 50 cent piece but forget its contents but, im definitely interested in it cuz it seduces me at least sometimes, but yeah im probably exaggerating the extent to which its ignored, esp w maybe relevant poppy fields in the news, ill try and look into this

i ws reading colette today and she had this funny phrase, civilized immorality

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:57 (twenty years ago)

it's funny someone knew i was thinking abt the clipse (who are not so much more complex than cam'ron - their agonized antihero pose should be familiar to 13-year-old readers of wolverine comics)

― vahid (vahid), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:58 (twenty years ago)

candicissima i think theres a difference between community ppl who condemn rappers for glamorizing crack to poor black kids and rap bloggers condemning other rap bloggers for makin tasteless and dumb crack jokes cuz they dont know shit about what crack means in real life beyond rap punchlines

― 3, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:58 (twenty years ago)

For dipset, crack is like a fitted cap or the color purple. Not that, artistically, there is anything wrong with that (morally, up for debate)

The Clipse use crack as means to an end, it is a tool that they use to investigate, i donno, themselves, human nature, blah blah blah. You may not agree with their conclusions (if they ever draw any) but the way they both *use* crack in rap is different.

Vahid - just because you're not convinced by the Clipse's approach does not mean that its the *same* approach we're critiquing dipset for.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 01:01 (twenty years ago)

For dipset, crack is like a fitted cap or the color purple. Not that, artistically, there is anything wrong with that per se (morally, up for debate)

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 01:02 (twenty years ago)

xposts galore

You told me to put the pipe down in my comments box the other day.

Indeed. But I wasn't saying it to be funny (and didn't necessarily mean crack). I mean, you said R. Kelly was a better performer or whatever than Teddy Pendergrass. You obviously were indulging in some wrong kind of narcotics.

I think crack is disassociated from its actual social connotations because its such a pop culture cliche.

And if that doesn't speak to privilege, than I don't know what does. I'm from East New York. Crack is not a joke nor a cliche to me.

And that's OTM. I'm Not You is a fucking brutal ass song, but amusing since they are those rappers now that they were slagging off.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 23 July 2005 01:04 (twenty years ago)

xpost to deej: well, i have no idea why i started a stupid clipse v cam'ron debate - pusha t has been my current fave rapper for years now and i really like cam'ron too.

also i totally agree w/ the "rap bloggers making tasteless and dumb crack jokes" = fools.

― vahid (vahid), Saturday, 23 July 2005 01:04 (twenty years ago)

Again, I wasn't excusing the privilege merely noting WHY a lot of bloggers including myself probably don't realize they should be offended by tales of crack dealing. The only reason I don't get into praising it much is because the stuff bores me. I do like when Fat Joe yells "crack!" out of goddamn nowhere.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 01:06 (twenty years ago)

would it be more reasonable to be disturbed by rap bloggers who are into cam'ron not because of crack glorification but because of hustler glorification?

― vahid (vahid), Saturday, 23 July 2005 01:06 (twenty years ago)

I think we need to interrogate exactly what "hustler" means before we can answer that vahid!

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 01:07 (twenty years ago)

(and what it means to who and the ramifications of such etc)

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 01:09 (twenty years ago)

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