amy winehouse - C or D? [RIP 7/23/11]

I saw the headline earlier but didn't see the whole thing, and didn't realize until now. Sad. What a waste (meaning, roughly: it's easy to imagine a life for her in which she would have worked out the problems that drove her to this, and made something more of her gifts).

wow @ some of you

People asking "why weren't there people in place keeping her from killing herself" don't know a lot about addicts. No one but the addict can stop an addict from using. Rehab / AA only works if you want to get clean. That's why rehab and AA have such dismal success rates, barely 1 in 10, and also why tons of people get sober without either.

There's a reason it's called "addiction". It's not like eating too much candy corn before dinner.

it's like when Michael Jackson died, he had a doctor that tried to stop him from killing himself and giving him access to painkillers, so MJ just said "ok, well then who WILL help me get these things"? Even with maximum efforts, if the addict is doing whatever they can to procure their substances, it's extremely difficult to combat it.

I suffer from eating too much candy corn addiction, you insensitive bastard.

:(

I like using candy corn to pretend I have "fangs."

Its funny when mj died I remember ilx being a lot less respectful abt it

amy winehouse never molested kids iirc

And a lot more ppl connected w his music - the story was still incredibly sad

There's more to gawk at w/mj

MJ is a very different thing

The mysteriousness of mj's death mixed with his existing air of weirdness makes for a much different dynamic than someone who died from od'ing on less exotic drugs (and also, afaik, wasn't as far gone as mj). Sorry if I'm bein disrespectful

Jut wait until the full Dommy P-written obituary, guys.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/23/article-0-0D21E84200000578-84_306x541.jpg

xp MJ is arguably the most famous black dude of all time... def a different situation.

wait, what does him being black have to do with it

MJ almost doubtless ruined a number of people's lives forever by having sex with them when they were children. It's tragic that he did so because he himself was fucked up as a child, but that doesn't mitigate the monstrosity of his probable actions. He was never convicted in a court of law, but hardly anyone thinks there wasn't something deeply off in his relations with the children who stayed at his house. Anybody who can't see a massive difference between that situation & any other situation is fooling themselves, God knows why.

Because he made, Thriller, man... Thriller.

not to help hijack this thread but I don't think you can say 'almost doubtless' w/ that claim

aside from the whole molestation thing, i just think a lot of it has to do w/ age & accomplishments -- michael spiraled out but he gave us a very full career. i.e. no one said "oh, what a waste" when he died. both deaths were pretty sad & fucked up, but in different ways

People already be forgetting that, despite the revisionist post-death history, MJ was generally regarded as a "freak" for the last 20 years of his life. Winehouse just had two years as a "fuckup".

not to help hijack this thread but I don't think you can say 'almost doubtless' w/ that claim

sure you can. MJ is your classic case of money buys you a not-guilty. anybody who reads the testimony & says "oh well there's two sides to every story" is eager to make excuses for somebody whose music they like imo

mj had been a joke for 20+ years for a large part of the public, amy was a punchline for 3-4 years and with a much smaller percentage of the population

or what what whiney said

can't agree w/MJ as a "joke." the caliber of his artistry at his peak is all-time-titan stuff. his music changed the world. few compare to him in any way.

i meant as a public figure, not commenting on his artistry

ok fair enuf everybody knew he was out of his mind & probably a bad, bad dude

but i mean, i do have to say it is a little weird ILX is being so reverent about all this. the jay reatard thread had a "good riddance to bad rubbish" within the first six hours.

it's reverse sexism. that has to be it.

i was gonna go jewish conspiracy but i'll allow it

but i mean, i do have to say it is a little weird ILX is being so reverent about all this. the jay reatard thread had a "good riddance to bad rubbish" within the first six hours.

would guess that most of those people had never heard his music.

really tho, jay reatard's death was obv shitty but there's such a lineage of out of control punk dudes flaming out early that it's not as shocking as something like this

I don't really care about her music I think it's not a bad idea to be reverent towards pretty much every death in the world that isn't OBL, there doesn't have to be an argument and it doesn't have to be a contest over who you should be more or less reverent for or whether this is more important than some other event

but I think*

how dare you speak ill of our glorious leader

idk J0rdan. I mean...Winehouse is like Pete Doherty: every time you see a news item on her, you expect it to be "Winehouse is dead." She's the punk icon at the celebrity level, which is its own trope. I think the shock here is a sort of weird class-relations thing: if I had the kind of money/power (not political power, but wealth is power) that she had, you can bet your ass that I'd take care of myself. It's incomprehensible to me that somebody who gets to that level doesn't say, fuck it, I'll drop 100k on getting myself clean. What junkie actually loves his junkiedom? not many in my experience; most of them always talk about getting clean, but the prospect of being clean & poor vs. high & poor is too unattractive to pursue. So it's kind of - bizarre, hard to understand - that she died in her illness.

I was hoping that she had a little bit of Keef genetics and could pull through. I just wish it didn't feel so inevitable.

Notably, there's a thread on Amy Winehouse over there right now, and this is the most-favorited comment

― mh, Saturday, July 23, 2011 1:37 PM Bookmark

Yeah, my sister (who, coincidentally, got out of rehab today. I'm happy to see her so healthy!) and her struggles with addiction have definitely informed my reaction to this.

i...can't tell if aero is trolling? but i pretty much strongly disagree with everything he is saying

for one thing he's capitalizing the first words of each sentence, which is throwing me off

Not to further derail but there was more than dubious evidence in both instances of MJ being arrested. I still don't believe he was guilty.

I do agree they were diff situations, though.

I also do regret my comments on the Anal Cunt thread about Seth, as looking back they were poor taste.

Also hoping this thread doesn't further diverge into people projecting heavily onto others.

I didn't read the trial transcripts, but at the very least, MJ had extremely distorted boundary issues with children.

I hope it does!!

xpost

i...can't tell if aero is trolling? but i pretty much strongly disagree with everything he is saying

I don't troll like that, I may get pretty wound up & irrational but I don't post shit I don't mean to get a response & think anybody who does is, like, 5 years old tops

I don't post shit I don't mean to get a response

I don't! that's like hard for me to understand. I get that ppl do it but it is really confusing & weird to me

but anyway I have zero doubt in my mind that MJ was a child molester & think that people who wanna do all kinds of grotesque "but consider this about his accuser!!!"/"framed!!" bullshit are just fooling themselves/conspiracy theory addicts/etc