TOOL - C/D!?

- Do you realize you still haven't even tried to argue against me?

- I like some rap music; I can't say I'm well-versed in the field. What does that have to do with anything?

Don't give me "sense of humor". Have you been reading any of my posts? Way funnier than anything you're coming up with. And the kind of embarrassing, childish dick-and-poo talk Tool engage in is basically the antithesis of humor. (There's something else I could say here, but I won't.)

*blinks*

Look, maybe you really think you're funny -- hey, I often have the same affliction (but I don't AUTOMATICALLY assume I'm funny). All you're doing is coming across as one of the most tendentiously dull writers I've read in a long time (and believe me, when you work even slightly in academia, you get to know the type). There's nothing funny in your posts -- intentionally, at least. But if your goal is deep satire, then congratulations, you really capture the mode of suicidal boredom with aplomb.

I'll also admit this whole thing has upset me more than it probably should. There's something about conspiracy theorists in general, and Bill Hicks/his followers in particular, that just angers me uncontrollably. Sorry about that!

Whatever; this discussion isn't worth anyone's time or anger. No matter what either of us says, I'm going to continue to think Tool are paranoid, arrogant, crass, and inhumane, the worst sort of self-important shock-for-shock's-sake-masquerading-as-Deep nonsense -- as I said, no better than Bill Hicks. Meanwhile, the rest of you are either going to disagree (for various reasons) or not care. Nothing's going to change much.

But enough. I really should stop this.

OMG pessimist IS maynard james keenan

(I'm not from England.)

(Yeah, I think the rat bit might've been better if I ended it after the first paragraph.)

LOL

Nevertheless, it is perhaps fair to say that I have never had any reason to expect to enjoy the works of Tool. I will grant that point.

anyway, here is my aenema review from spin (i had no idea it was on line):

http://toolshed.down.net/articles/index.php?action=view-article&id=December_1996--Spin.html

Belle and Sebastian vs Tool, let's discuss

i had the excuse of being 14, though.

MY LIFE WHERE HAS IT GONE?

I suppose I have nothing to say about tool.

Belle and Sebastian need more songs about fisting.

10,000 days has grown on me a little bit, actually. it's not quite as solid as lateralus, but its got its own thing going.

Personally, lyrics don't matter that much to me when it comes to whether or not I like a song but I believe they should matter more to me and to other people. I recently came across this Eric Hoffer quote the other day and it makes a good point of saying that there might be hidden costs for a society that doesn't really care at all about the meanings behind their art...

"More significant than the fact that poets write abstrusely, painters paint abstractly, and composers compose unintelligible music is that people should admire what they cannot understand; indeed, admire that which has no meaning or principle."

I think a question that needs to be asked more often is "Why do people desire their lyrics to have meaning?" Why do people get disappointed when they find out that a song is only "catchy" and doesn't serve any larger purpose than that? Is it okay that most of us would have no qualms loving music with abhorrent messages, if they have any discernable messages at all?

The point at which I first heard "Editions of You" by Roxy Music coincides with the point at which I discovered that great lyrics and great music need not go hand in hand.

I like those lyrics!

Second of all, and perhaps way more important, while Radiohead's lyrics are generally suspicious of government et al. in a non-specific way, they rarely (never? probably not never, but I'm too tired to think) make overt reference to specific/established conspiracy theories. Whereas Tool, of course, buys into it wholesale, and says so directly.

Which is where I draw the line -- I have no problem with plausible suspicions of government -- what, somebody might lie about a war, or take bribes? Really? -- but to me, the hardcore conspiracy-theory guy, the kind of guy who's always talking about the Kennedy assassination or UFOs or the moon landing being fake, etc., against all the available evidence, is guilty of libel not only against the participants in said events, but against history itself -- against the notion that historical truth can be legitimately recorded and accountable to evidence.

So, to me, that kind of thing is abhorrent. I'm not saying this to debate the merits of conspiracy theory; I'm just saying that, for me, this is an ethical issue even if it weren't a musical one. (And I reiterate that I don't like Tool musically either, but that one wouldn't expect me to, because I don't like anything that sounds like Tool.)

I might compare it to religion -- practically everyone likes at least one band that happens to be religious, and maybe alludes to it glancingly from time to time. But if proselytizing becomes the focus of the music, well... maybe you can endure it if you happen to be of that religion to begin with. I wouldn't know.

http://toolshed.down.net/tour/