Sasha on Shadow, Diplo, Eminem & Minstrelsy

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well im switching to six but #@# might want the evens too. i like this thread alot and like forks intimated i wonder if it cld plz be relevant to talk abt women somewhere? otherwise im hype to live in a world where both crit and cuts is dancing and always dancing!

also i think #@# is rt insofar as the internet is not that anonymous, in fact

― 006 (thoia), Friday, 22 July 2005 23:02 (twenty years ago)

that's a straight up late-nite time-life pitch right there. dj diplo brings you the hits of international poverty! it's not black music, it's not white music, it's fun music. "i love the music of other people's cultures, and i hear it's making a comeback!" now you can vicariously remember again.. for the first time! featuring such hits as "baile funk track #3" by unnamed and "baltimore club track #12" by white label and who could forget "hold me now" by the thompson twins!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 22 July 2005 23:16 (twenty years ago)

act now and we'll throw in a free bonus disk -- "because they're not singing in english, it sounds deep." cover art features maxim's hot brazilian girls of 2004.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 22 July 2005 23:17 (twenty years ago)

i think that while hate for diplo or a generic diplo fan may be misdirected, it isnt necessarily misplaced. and, especially if we want to conflate the diplo and dipset phenoms, the worry is diplos making the music anonymous, or his, or yours, and that dipset praise evacuates the black and rap signifiers their songs are in reality full of, or abstracts them. of course, you cld see either as a step forward, but thats the worry

xp sterling kinda did it better

― 006 (thoia), Friday, 22 July 2005 23:20 (twenty years ago)

i mean, fucking hold me now!

― 006 (thoia), Friday, 22 July 2005 23:22 (twenty years ago)

Sterling way OTM

― Candicissima (candicissima), Friday, 22 July 2005 23:39 (twenty years ago)

i have trouble w the notion that music has intrinsic qualities, or cn be reduced to them. but i wont deny that a note, beat or voice cn produce a mood that seems to depend more on the listener, the listeners body, sociology, place and time, than on the producers, that this cn be difficult to articulate, or to defend. i think its useful to criticize ways of appreciating music, esp when its distributed unconventionally, on a music board of all places, cuz i believe these ways are symptomatic

― 006 (thoia), Friday, 22 July 2005 23:44 (twenty years ago)

haha sterl just ended dudes career

― 9, Friday, 22 July 2005 23:46 (twenty years ago)

because they're not singing in english, it sounds deep.

Sounds

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 22 July 2005 23:52 (twenty years ago)

Gee, what happened to my stunning insight?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 22 July 2005 23:52 (twenty years ago)

because they're not singing in english, it sounds deep.

Sounds deep? Thx to the bootyness of the tracks I've always half-assumed all of the baile funk stuff Diplo covers is about, I dunno, analingus or something.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 22 July 2005 23:55 (twenty years ago)

and pain!

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:00 (twenty years ago)

Maybe not sound deep but sounds cooler because most don't have the slightest idea what they're talking about. That can equally apply to rap slang. "I can't understand it, therefore it must be awesome! And I can totally bounce my booty like I see in videos! I'm being so wild today!"

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

but dipset got that crack! peep game candicissima! holla!

― 8, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

Yeah..right.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:08 (twenty years ago)

"conflate the diplo and dipset phenoms"=the title track of aesop rock's new album

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:09 (twenty years ago)

sorry i am not actually interested in this shit

― 5, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:12 (twenty years ago)

haha forks yes!

i guess i cant get past the assumption that listening to music, even alone, cubicle listening, im always thinking of other ppl, or of listening w them, doing shit w them

8 really otm abt crack. theres been such heated talk abt sex and misogny and males and violence, and race, but ive never noticed ppl acknowledging the appeal there, or exploring it

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:16 (twenty years ago)

actually i was just tryna write bout how fucked up 'got that crack' is for a nonstop internet nerd endorsment of ppl who dont give a fuck about what crack actually does

― 4, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:21 (twenty years ago)

Where did nine go?

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:25 (twenty years ago)

OMG!

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:25 (twenty years ago)

7 ate 9!

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:26 (twenty years ago)

There are so many numbers here, its like a season of sesame street or some shit. (Sterling and #s are mostly otm. I also like 006's point right after sterling dropped the bomb.)

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:31 (twenty years ago)

i just meant ive never seen anyone call it out cept you, when it seems integral to them, to me, rt now im assuming its like some feelin of, the 1st rule of dealin is never dip into ur own stash, nihilism, but i dunno

not that there arent ppl talking abt some crack romanticism in or particular to dipset or whatever, just like i dont remember any

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:31 (twenty years ago)

Man kris exo made a bunch of these points about dipset back when purple haze dropped and i dont remember anyone on ilm paying attention.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

Not that I'm blaming anybody, just giving credit where due.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

yeah kris contradicts himself a lil too much (like any good writer!)but the 10% of the time hes on point nobody else doin this rap critic shit even matters

― 3, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:39 (twenty years ago)

anyway i just found that now but i didnt have a computer when he wrote it!

― 3, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:39 (twenty years ago)

Were you watching our eyes or something, deej? Just cuz you don't write "preach on, prophet" in the comments box doesn't mean you aren't reading.

I was happier that he was repping for Ludacris, really.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:40 (twenty years ago)

I've heard that argument a million times. Then again, I ignore most things critics say, so what do I know?

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:40 (twenty years ago)

And I don't think anybody has dibs on "crack is bad."

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:41 (twenty years ago)

Miccio take it easy, thats why I said "not that i'm blaming anybody, just giving credit where it's due."

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:42 (twenty years ago)

i dunno that was standard in late 90s underground set i ran w/ but i dunno how much theyre sayin it bout the current hipster blog rap fam now, nobody in rap gives a fuck

― 3, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:42 (twenty years ago)

sorry, deej, just "giving credit where it's due" sounds like he's being sampled or something. It's an open G chord, you know?

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:43 (twenty years ago)

Yeah dude aside from Whitney Houston I haven't heard to many crack putdowns in a minute.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:44 (twenty years ago)

cuz if you wanna find bad influences on ppl w/o blogs youll go for a crew who sold more than 30k copies of their last album

― 3, Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:44 (twenty years ago)

Did Dipset really not sell more that? Roffles. That's pathetic.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:45 (twenty years ago)

Miccio I think all I'm saying is, (and i'm guilty of this too, i reviewed purple haze and focused more on its absurd linguistic content) that when Purple Haze dropped it would have been nice to hear more people calling Cam on that shit. I don't know of anyone outside of Exo. (And J Shepard calling him on the sexism, as well)

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:45 (twenty years ago)

that mightve been the only time i read kris! i read him some time, on some point, im def not claiming to be mr original at any rate

which argument candicissima? if your talking abt what i sd, i meant specific to the dipset pro and con, altho i dont think i made that clear, still im sure theres some great shit abt rap and drugs, which is why i ws trying to be so hesitant

how abt on crack is good?

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:45 (twenty years ago)

does cam'ron have a monopoly on crack rap?

― vahid (vahid), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

We're not talking about what the subject matter is, vahid, we're talking about how he is about it.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:49 (twenty years ago)

It's probably cuz a lot of people think crack is funny. Chris Rock admits it - it's just a fun word to say. They don't think about it as a reality thing, just this New Jack City shit. Maybe people should be more earnest about the glamorization of its dealers: Take Back The Crack!

That means no Clipse for you, of course.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:50 (twenty years ago)

xpost The crack romanticism factor, 006. Aren't there like books about that? I feel like it might have been touched on in one of Bakari Kitwana's at least. There was a reference to it in Hip The History -- at least to the romanticism of the urban outlaw. I think I remember a freaking Voice cover story not too many moons ago having to do with 50 Cent or something with those issues. Maybe not in regards to Dipset in particular, but it's a pretty well mined topic.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:50 (twenty years ago)

As in, he is particularly unrepentent. Or rather, the sexism simply exists within the work uncritiqued, the crack-culture simply exists as a means to an aesthetic/macho end. I still like the album! I'm probably a bad person for it. Hah. But its something that should have at least been engaged w by critics, ilm, etc.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:51 (twenty years ago)

Miccio, the Clipse's engagement with crack/drug culture is WAY more complex than it is for Cam'ron dipset et al.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:52 (twenty years ago)

Engaged by critics, ILM usually means people go "hmm, yes, its bad" and then describe how they ignore it because like they like the music or artist or how they don't because they don't enjoy the music or artist. Nobody really seems to think people SHOULD be glamourizing crack.

x-post: nevermind! some people find complexity.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:54 (twenty years ago)

xpost It's probably cuz a lot of people think crack is funny.

Anthony is wrong today. But right about that being a totally ILM thing to say.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:55 (twenty years ago)

Hey, I didn't say they were RIGHT to! But you can't deny it's a common joke. You told me to put the pipe down in my comments box the other day.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:56 (twenty years ago)

I think crack is disassociated from its actual social connotations because its such a pop culture cliche.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:57 (twenty years ago)

Well, Jon Carmaniaca said something like this in his purple haze review: "The avant garde does not have to be moral." Is that sort of what we're debating here? I donno I'm jus throwing it out there.

re: the clipse, you may not be convinced by their complexity, but for me the clipse have a lot more (rather non-specific) stories to tell about crack than dipset do, and they dont wear it as a badge, they engage with it.

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 00:57 (twenty years ago)

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