★ The Weeknd ★ What You Need ★

i was thinking he was going for a fake sade thing w/ the military snare part

its super blatant though

i think thats probably my big issue w/ the weeknd in general is that they make 'subtlety' seem really very not subtle & clumsy

'subtlty' is always in big block-letter quote marks

fake sade thing

as in, the march-snare part of 'soldier of love'

deej maybe kanye & the weeknd will collaborate & you can kill two unsubtle birds w/ one unsubtle stone

so obv a fake

i dont think u 'get' talking about music grady -- i say sit this one out & marinate on chill stuff

i would go on basically forever, but i have places to be. deej wins!

― And the piano, it sounds like a carnivore (contenderizer), Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:51 PM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol cont is taking a page out of the some dude playbook

deej maybe kanye & the weeknd will collaborate & you can kill two unsubtle birds w/ one unsubtle stone

― J0rdan S., Friday, June 17, 2011 2:42 AM (47 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

has kanye tweeted abt the weeknd yet

i feel like i'm gonna be compelled to post that contenderizer post under a lot of future contenderizer posts

man listen to those drums. they almost sound like sade except..... FAKE.

it's like "fisher price my first major lazer sample"

― J0rdan S., Thursday, June 16, 2011 10:39 PM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

wow seriously otm. the whole thing is just so awkward and unmusical.

man listen to those drums. they almost sound like sade except..... FAKE.

― gr8080, Friday, June 17, 2011 2:45 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

dude for real you dont 'get' it. 'fake' is used as a value-neutral all the time in conversations between ppl who talk about music -- it just means, 'aiming for a similar facsimile/vibe', or like, 'inspired by,' its 'fake' vs. being a 'quote' or a 'reference' or a 'sample' or any other of the hundreds of degrees of imitation

wtf that "High For This" video is awful .. Deserves much better IMO

http://thumbnails.hulu.com/6/885/14661_512x288_manicured__-4dQs7opR0CKUHyQXdTLUw.jpg

YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT, GR8080

is that a jay batman callback

yeah, but disparaging a record or critic for being part of the hype cycle is hypocritical and tiresome unless you're totally outside of not only the mainstream hype cycle, but whatever hype cycles dominate in the niches you actually care about. i mean sure, everybody has to draw the line somewhere, but it's just as kneejerk to slam an album for being overhyped as it is to express interest in something other people are listening to and talking about.

This is misconceived I think. None of us are outside hype cycles. But some hype cycles are more reasonably constructed than others.

I think it's fair to be irritated by critical discourses that are based on faulty or dodgy premises, or which are based on certain (often undisclosed) privileges for particular ideas, sounds, audiences, motifs et al.

If the music itself (in its sound, its packaging etc.) did little or nothing to encourage such a hype cycle then it's unfair to then be irritated by the music in turn - i.e. it's not appropriate to hate on old reggae records merely because some critics now try to celebrate them in contrast to the incorrigible slackness of dancehall. But when the music is clearly encouraging (and is engaged with) the hype cycle it produces then it's no longer a question of distinguishing cleanly between the music and the hype.

xp Dee Robin

Tim F (esp about the good word given to old reggae records)

Tim F otm I mean

But some hype cycles are more reasonably constructed than others.

I think it's fair to be irritated by critical discourses that are based on faulty or dodgy premises, or which are based on certain (often undisclosed) privileges for particular ideas, sounds, audiences, motifs et al.

If the music itself (in its sound, its packaging etc.) did little or nothing to encourage such a hype cycle then it's unfair to then be irritated by the music in turn - i.e. it's not appropriate to hate on old reggae records merely because some critics now try to celebrate them in contrast to the incorrigible slackness of dancehall. But when the music is clearly encouraging (and is engaged with) the hype cycle it produces then it's no longer a question of distinguishing cleanly between the music and the hype.

― Tim F, Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:01 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark

i don't know that some hype cycles are more reasonably constructed than others. i suppose some are a product of money and marketing and others build from the ground up due to fan enthusiasm and word-of-mouth, but "reasonable" isn't the word i'd choose to distinguish between the two. maybe constructed vs. organic? but the line between the two is seldom 100& clear.

i mean i get what yr saying about critical discourses that are based on faulty or undisclosed/unexamined premises & prejudices, but that's always possible, whether the hype in question is some international thing or just somebody selling out a midsize venue in their home town. and it's much easier to suggest that a hype is built on such stuff than to break down the how, why and problem aspects. anyway, i'm not sure that any hype is ever free of such issues, in one form or another. people invest in and follow artists for a host of extremely complex and personal reasons, few of which are ever clearly addressed in yr average pop review.

finally, i'm not sure what you mean about music that does or doesn't encourage hype. artists put their products out there to be heard, for the most part, unless they're weirdo recluses forced into the public eye by friends & family. even under such extreme circumstances, most art attempts to engage the curiosity of some imagined audience. honestly, i'm not sure how any of this applies to the weeknd in a way that doesn't apply equally to, say, r. kelly.

and it's much easier to suggest that a hype is built on such stuff than to break down the how, why and problem aspects.

there's an implied, "...and to demonstrate that the hype accrued by supposedly more worthy albums is free of such agendas," here

what? that doesnt make any sense as an analogy.

― arachno-misogynist (D-40), Thursday, June 16, 2011 6:45 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

i dunno, it made sense to me.

thing is, all art competes for critical and popular attention (and, not coincidentally, the money and social prestige that go with that attention). critics participate in this competition by feeding glamor points to their pet favorites, or trying to, and by attempting to construct and share a discourse that will favor the niches, artists and values to which they've sworn allegiance. i don't personally believe that anyone has any special right to public favor, but everyone is certainly welcome to broadcast the story they want heard. which i guess means it's cool for you to foment against team indie, but it's likewise cool for me to look askance at team playing in general.

wtf @ people writing/beefing about this terrible music

New industry description

you posted here now you're part of it too xpost

fucking right that's an xpost bucko

lol

i don't know that some hype cycles are more reasonably constructed than others. i suppose some are a product of money and marketing and others build from the ground up due to fan enthusiasm and word-of-mouth, but "reasonable" isn't the word i'd choose to distinguish between the two. maybe constructed vs. organic? but the line between the two is seldom 100& clear.

You're talking about pedigree when you should be talking about content. My definition of reasonability here is "the message promoted by the hype isn't totally ridiculous and incorrect besides."

For an example (and deconstruction) of an unreasonable hype cycle see Maura and Tom E's recent articles on critics' attempts to turn Adele into the saviour of "real music".

Typically hype cycles become unreasonable when they become about something broader/deeper than the music at hand: artist as the saviour of X or artist is bringing X to Y or artist boldly rejects Z.

Compare/contrast with how ILM tried to hype Electrik Red - which was basically "hey this is some really awesome R&B."

Heard this in room three at Fabric in the middle of an otherwise straight rnb and rap set and it was amazing, on that big sound system, how flat it sounded in comparison to everything else around it, no body or bounce to it.

Also overentitled dudes whining on are to my mind the single worst thing about contemporary rnb so props to The Weeknd for retaining that aspect and throwing everything else out of the window.

ypically hype cycles become unreasonable when they become about something broader/deeper than the music at hand: artist as the saviour of X or artist is bringing X to Y or artist boldly rejects Z.

Compare/contrast with how ILM tried to hype Electrik Red - which was basically "hey this is some really awesome R&B."

― Tim F, Friday, June 17, 2011 2:21 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

o god, hype is always about more than the music at hand. and electric red bit the dust cuz ultimately the music didn't move that many people (myself included).

see Maura and Tom E's recent articles on critics' attempts to turn Adele into the saviour of "real music".

why on earth would i want to do that? i get enough out of listening to music i actually like.

yeah, it's awful when there's no smoke to obscure the party xpost

o god, hype is always about more than the music at hand. and electric red bit the dust cuz ultimately the music didn't move that many people (myself included).

Doubt that many people heard the music in the first place.

despite the best efforts of...

p.s. electriK

So now the purpose of hype cycles is to make up as much bullshit as possible to trick gullible listeners to pay attention?

Erm, yes?

I mean, no one outside ILM and a couple of blogs bothered to hype Electrik Red at all from what I can see.

...the purpose of hype cycles is to make up as much bullshit as possible to trick gullible listeners to pay attention?

for the record, i did not say this [wink emoticon that i am not actually familiar with]

Yes but you implied that the proof is in the pudding - that weeknd hype is justified if it gets attention.

And of course the reason that ER hype didn't catch on is not b/c electrik red aren't good but because the notion of "a really great R&B album" without chart success or some tenuous hype hook doesn't appeal to people who aren't otherwise pretty invested in R&B.

are you saying that electrik red didn't catch on because they hadn't caught on? i mean, i agree, but...

^ dick

I'm saying that critics, bloggers etc are more inclined to pretend that non-superstar R&B doesn't exist than they are with other genres. A lot of people I know would be into Beyonce and/or The Weeknd but wouldn't even be aware of the existence of Keyshia Cole or Teairra Marie let alone Elektrik Red.

crap. machine shut down and dumped my wisdom.

anyway, my point is that the things that = "quality" in one niche or from one POV, don't necessarily mean much from another. and the weeknd obviously connect with a significant audience, no matter how trivial they might seem to you or i (and they do). i could rage against this if i saw myself as the champion of this or that scene, but i don't, so i don't. instead, i congratulate the weeknd on their success, and hope for something similar for the artists i actually care about.

^ includes at least one superfluous comma

It's not The Weeknd's "success" that irritates me though, it's bad writing. And it's more about how some critics like to set up the success (creatively) of one thing as being in contradistinction to stuff they don't really understand, and that bothers me heaps.

It happens in dance music more than in R&B. Which is one reason so many dance music listeners seek out The Weeknd - the critical tropes deployed are actually a bit closer to what i call "indie dance" than they are to indie rock per se.

i'm annoyed by bad/ignorant writing, too, but that sort of goes with any "novel" genre making its way into the mainstream. the psych noise & garage punk i normally engage with no less than the R&B & dance i'm peripherally curious abt. i guess i've learned to let it roll off my back.

can't speak to the relationship of dance listeners to pop R&B like the weekend, as i'm not really expert in either genre.

"weeknd"

fuck, that's hard to type

..that sort of goes with any "novel" genre making its way into the mainstream.

shit, and that's idiotic. R&B is hardly a "novel" genre making it's way into the mainstream. i'm buying into the stupid "indie = mainstream" assumptions that frame this whole debate. rather, the weeknd are a weird/niche variation of R&GB making inroads into crit-friendly indie, itself a marginal niche. by which point the cross-pollination becomes so semiotically complex that it's impossible to say anything useful about it no matter where you're coming from.

you are insane fwiw fyi