What ever happened to Gay Dad?

1) Gay Dad - WHY, GOD, WHY? Have we sinned that badly? 2) 'Paul' - Is everything good rock'n'roll? Is all rock'n'roll good?

Oh, BTW, there was no rib removal, but the auto-fellatio bit is true.

depends. you just know what is good and what isnt....it's personal. some of it is really bad. my general guideline is that pretension is the enemy of art. the pretension stuff is shit. the jeff buckley tributes are shit. the 'hey it's on an indie label so it must be good but it's just very boring but i'm going to name drop the album and never listen to it' is shit.

i like the concept of soul in rock and roll. whether it be gay dad, mahalia jackson, mission control, the strokes....you know when it's real if you feel connected to it....should soundtrack yer life and it's just that indie attitude of people who attack it. I think rock adn roll is beautiful.

ramblin' paul 'jack elliott'....

Oh, and Kate, to continue a thread from about two years ago on another list entirely, I told you they were crap! Hee hee.

Bill

and why is mine, wrong. Music is highly personal, I find the dissection of music, painful and counterproductive.

The funny thing is, I have been in a room full of music critics before and instead of talking about music, I just tell them the last record bought was Ricky Martin. It's easier that way.

Why is music wrong, Tom? And more importantly, why are you right?

Too right. If there is one thing the Strokes have not, it's soul.

it either has it or it doesnt. kevin rowland, my beauty has it. even the shaggs have it. it's something that comes through in the music that is true and beautiful and is the reason why people love music.

tom, question, what records for you have soul?

Aw, Bill, I can't even counter with the excuse I used to use ("aw, but he's good looking") any more cause Cliff Jones got hit by the ugly truck bigtime lately.

this is the sort of talk, that I dig about music.

am on 'don't think twice, it's alright'....., beth orton trailer park, tasha lee's album, strokes, some african guy's soundtrack to an indie movie, where, if I were to try spelling it, I would get 'flamed', dj shadow, trashmonk, the temptations, the eels song 'everything is going to be alright this christmas, pattern 45 wet circuit city, the hives and gorecki.

i do love music. sometimes, it's my life. thus, am easy to take the piss out of.

By that definition maybe the Strokes do have soul, because they certainly have enough of mommy and daddy's money that they needn't create in order acquire riches. Shame about that money buying them access to music media and record labels and their passing themselves off as elegantly wasted boho Lower East Side types though.

:calms down from apoplexy::

OK, for those of you who haven't heard it a million times before, my problem with The Strokes is that they are being hyped as this continuation of the NY "Art Punk" tradition, compared to VU, through Television through Jonathan Fire*Eater all that stuff.

The Strokes are to the VU what Oasis are to the Beatles- a watered down imitation made palatable to the MTV generation.

What Tom said about "being too busy posing and worrying about looking cool to actually have any soul" is their very problem. They've aped the look and the style of that scene, but captured none of the substance.

If you want a band that *measures up* to those reviews, waste no time with The Sucks, but go out and get yourself a French Kicks record. Far superior, they back up the style and affectations with truly intriguing music.

Doompatrol, you are exactly the sort of person who *SHOULD* love The Strokes.

I rest my case.

[/eom]

One *possible* reason is also the solution to the NME's amazement at why a little-known band can be featured on the catwalks of Milan (in the lead to the I love NY) cover story: Because the lead singer's father is John Casablancas, the head of Elite modeling

So when they tell the NME "everything just sort of happened, we don't know how" and Rolling Stone that better get a record deal because they are "three months behind on the rent" they neglect to mention that they live in Gramercy Park and the Upper East Side. They neglect to mention that even though they can't pay the rent, the former assistant booker at the Mercury quit to become their manager, the guy who handles Rufus Wainwright, Elastica, Nelly Furtado and other major-label types is their publicist and that Courtney Love's lawyer is their lawyer. So while they feign surprise at the most rapid rise to prominance of any new band in recent memory (check the comprable rise of the Avalanches and Sigur Rós) and complain about how poor they are, who's paying all those people's bills? I'm not saying it's John Casablancas, but...

But they look adorable in that rakish Lower East Side way don't they?

by the way, you don't know me, masonic boom, so please refrain from those comments, that pretend that you do, indeed, know me in some way.

can someone please answer the question?

From an ill-tempered e-mail I sent last week:

"And then you get something like The Strokes coming up, and everyone on the 'scene' seems to go mad for them, because it's something familiar that they recognise and can label rock - I think basically any writer who starts frothing over a band like The Strokes should lose their job. Not that they're a bad band, particularly."

I think paid journos going mad over the Strokes is more laziness than enthusiasm. That may be cynical of me but so be it.

And Kate hates the Strokes, and Scott thinks they're fakers, and you think they're great, and I think they're OK and overrated currently - it's a spectrum of opinion and that's why we have a forum in the first place.

The Bee Gees' "To Love Somebody" is a good song.

The music isn't bad, I don't think it's great, but...It's the free pass that bothers me, the band being allowed to cultivate this image and everyone else happily pushing the prodcut for their own gain, but, hey why does that surpise me?

why the HELL did Rough Trade, of all people, actually fall for it? As a label and an institution, they have too good a rep to be sullied by this nonsense. Got any ideas? I want to be shocked by allegations that the resolutely indie but failing label has accepted a major cash injection from a shite band's father in order to fund the far more interesting output of bands like Moldy Peaches...

Now wouldn't that be an interesting conspiracy?

don't you find yourselves draining?

it's not like it's a britney spears record.

Things turned around for the Strokes (they had been playing in and around NYC for a couple of years before much notice, that's sort of out of the official bio these days) once Ryan Gentles, a former Mercury Longue employee who is very reputable in NYC as well as a very nice fellow, I'm told -- he's just doing his job I don't want to disparage him at all, became their manager it turned heads, they got bigger shows, and he got them the deal at Rough Trade. The thing is that he quit his full-time job to work for only them -- about the time they told Rolling Stone they couldn't even pay the rent. That's one of the places where the finances don't add up.

They don't fit on U.S. radio and they are too polished for most U.S. indie fans. In the future the Strokes will be...the Dandy Warhols.

Actually, the difference between the Strokes and the Dandys is that they Dandys have the actual secret weapon that is Peter Holmstrom (only member with actual *talent* as opposed to looks, 'Tood and nudity).

Me and my boy actually did both buy the single, for the same reason as you two did. ;-) See, that's the secret reason I'm bad-mouthing them so much. There are hundreds of bands I really loathe. I just want to give them the bad press so the disc will be worth something in a year...

But, to bring the thread full circle, what are the chances that The Strokes will be the next Gay Dad in a year?

signing off..

paul.

Patrick: Yeah, that's the ultimate irony in a thread in which I called a band "hypocrites." I bought the record early thanks to all of the kudos, and then furrowed my brow after the unanimous praise and got a bit curious.

Masonic Boom: Yeah, sorry, the Dandys aren't my favorites, but I meant to say that's the sort of level of fame the Strokes will get. (probably a big crossover in fan base as well, at least here where the Dandys get approval from the indiepoppers and Britpop kids)

Bill

Holy shit, I think I auditioned for them in about 1995/6. From what I remember, they were excellent garage/surf sort of stuff. However, this was five years ago. Didn't know they were still around. And Peelie played them? Will have to look them up and see if they're around.

Dammit, if *we* were American, Peel would love us. Sigh. Oh, wait... ::grins::

Read into that whatever you will. And based on the foregoing, it seems like a blessing for me.

Both of these bands we've been discussing, Gay Dad and The Strokes have had huge hype machines behind them. Obviously, this has affected our perception of them, and their music.

In the chartpop world, clearly hype does no harm- the whole Popstars/Hear'Say phenomenon, which many hoped would finally blow the roof off and expose the wires and smokes and mirrors behind the chartpop svengali world, seemed to have quite the opposite, and many call it "the world's longest advert for a single."

The Strokes, much hyped as you've seen from clear explanations from Scott P., have provoked an extreme disgust reaction in many people, including me. I didn't like them the first time I heard them (in a dingy little club on the Lower East Side) - but honestly, I see many bands live, and hear hundreds of promo CDs every month that commit far greater offenses against my tastes in music, but they've not provoked the same dislike.

And that got me thinking about Gay Dad. Initially I did *like* their first single. But the surrounding hype (and it really was the first time I'd seen hype from the inside. Their rise to fame coincided with my moving to London, experiencing the poster and press deluge, being friends with music journalists who got the press releases and promos) quickly drove me to go from "Oh well, good first single, couldn't live up to it" to dismisssing the entire thing as a media stunt.

If hype has such a negative, backfiring effect on bands, why do bands, their labels, their Pluggers and their publicists continue to rely so heavily on it? Can you think of a situation where hype has had a *positive* influence on a band?

Is anti-hype the answer? Radiohead, in their refusal to do press, do interviews, do singles, videos, promos, etc. seemed to be making anti- hype a hype in itself. Is there a middle ground between Thom Yorke, and that cover of Melody Maker "we are the best band in the world" bollocks so common in the 90s?

I mean, what can we/they (fans? bands? press? record industry as a whole?) do about this?

If you can criticize bands, why can't people criticize your band? If you put yourself in the arena, I mean. Most of the critics, bear grudges, why is it that guy's criticism something no one could stomach?

Just wondering.

A: "larvae always attaches onto beauty"

I have been around long enough to be able to tell the difference between negative criticism and personal attack.

As I said many times in the Courtney Love thread, if you don't like the music, well, fine, stick to the music. Tell me why you do or don't like the music. (or the image, or the hype, or the anything objective.) I can take negative criticism- if you don't like the music, fine. But personal attack is not on- you may insult my music, you may not insult *me*.

I would really like to put this whole thing behind us. Enough already.

Lots of interesting comments about the Strokes in this thread... and months before the debut album came out (no pun intended)

i am kind of curious about gay dad though... any good?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3rzu81UMAA_M5T.jpg

Wiki:

Since 2013, Jones has managed the Radiophonic Workshop, (a.k.a. BBC Radiophonic Workshop).

...what??!!

Does he employ the old drummer to make fresh funky beats for the shires?

I almost went along to see the Workshop recreate the Doctor Who theme with tapes (not sure if copies or the originals) of the multitracks for a BBC doc. then Covid happened.

I really like "Different Kind of Blue" off their debut