Sade: Classic or Dud?

i'm old enough to have bought sade's first two singles when they came out, and she was def hyped/supported by certain kinds of hipsters, as stevie t sez - soul boy socialists associated with the face and the nme, in the main - tho of course there were other 'rockist' hipsters who dismissed her, and - another kind of hipster - old skool soul fans who thought she couldn't hold a candle to aretha or whoever.

i guess my point is, 'hipster' wasn't/isn't just one thing/type and is practically useless as a critical 'concept'

Also in fairness by 1993 or so, EVERYTHING from the 90s that wasn't hip-hop, acid house and some indie seemed incredibly unfashionable and remained so for most of the 90s.

Didn't follow this very closely at the time but instinctively I would think that 'Love Deluxe' was the seed for the subsequent critical re-framing

If this is any indication of Sade's critical stock: at some point in the 90s, Q did an extended feature which named the worst album of each year. Diamond Life was their choice for 1984. (And Cockney Rebel's marvellous The Psychomodo was their choice for 1974, pah.)

Let me guess, Metal Machine Music featured prominently?

If that mag is the reason I can always find a used copy of diamond life lp for two bucks more power to them

being boffed by robert elms really is the dark unutterable at the heart of all sade enjoyment that can never be fully overcome

and i say that as a fellow ranger

lol yeah its like i can never read an article by marina hyde wout thinking ewww piers morgan

In terms of critical context here my reference points were probably the 90's looking back on the '80s. I was barely walking when Sade appeared in the mid-80s, so I wasn't really aware of what critics thought of the band at the time (except for Christgau, who seems to have been a dissenting voice). Part of the reason I've never fully embraced Sade's music may have been its surface affinities with "smooth jazz" dreck, although since I adore Steely Dan I understand the value of fine distinctions here. But Steely Dan also has lyrics.

I'm American, by the way, and I read very little UK pop journalism until sometime in the '00s, so I wouldn't have been aware of the general UK critical opinion on Sade in the 90s.

In regards to "UK critical consensus has a much more rapid turnover" (lex pretend) - one of the reasons I don't go out of my way to read UK pop journalism today is that I really don't like kneejerk turnabouts and flavor-of-the-month hyperbole, both tendencies that I associate (perhaps unfairly) with UK rock-crits. To be fair, though, I've pretty much passed on Rolling Stone's review section for years, too - Jann Wenner's starfuckery (try to imagine a two-star review for U2, or the Rolling Stones, or even, say, Coldplay, or conversely a four and a half/five star review for a new/unknown artist) does a real disservice to the many good writers they employ.

And to any UK rock writers on the board here, a disclaimer - I should've written "probably unfairly". I'm talking about a writing style here more than anything else, so take my uninformed generalization for what it is.

If this is any indication of Sade's critical stock: at some point in the 90s, Q did an extended feature which named the worst album of each year. Diamond Life was their choice for 1984.

interesting. i stuck up for sade's critical rep, cuz i never got any clear sense that US critics hated her. most of her albums seemed generally well-reviewed, at least by the most visible mainstream critics. maybe i'm remembering this incorrectly? it's been a while.

the reason i described sade-hate in terms of (always tediously divisive) "hipsters" was that...
A) the wufs used that term in initially asking about sade's supposed critical rehabilitation, and...
B) i observed a lot of smooth music hate among trendy indie/anticorporate/punk types during the 80s and 90s.

seems to me that this was the dominant form US hipster/scenesterism took during that era, and the attitude was certainly prevalent among "edgier", low-circulation zine & magazine critics. but hipsters of this sort are hardly representative of pop criticism as a whole, right? even when they publish reviews and essays in your trendier magazines.

suppose this is the same argument put forth by xhuxk, with his constant appeals to P&J in attempt to establish an objective critical baseline (often in opposition to the confusion of trendy points of view with "critical consensus"). tbh, i've found that annoying in the past, but suddenly understand the impulse. not saying that sade's critical rep wasn't in the dumps, just that i never saw much evidence of it. were love deluxe and lovers rock critically savaged or ignored upon release?

Love Deluxe actually ranked #31 in the 1993 Pazz & Jop. So obviously I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about a few posts back.

when lovers rock came out it was pretty huge and acclaimed and tbh when i heard it i finally "got" sade. unfortunately i think a lot of people only knew her from lite fm ads which juxtaposed 'smooth operator' with 'songbird.'

xp And Lovers Rock places at #25 in 2000.

And since I went out and said "hipster" I'm wondering if there's a better or at least less contentious/less played-out term to use. I was questioning it myself because it's so overused, but I think in a place like ILM it's basically understood - not least because many tastemaking ILMers are hipsters themselves. I didn't mean it as a term of derision either - I envy hipsters their temperament and their ability to pick up on new shit and what have you. But whenever I've tried that look on for myself it didn't take. Better to be honestly unhip than a trying-too-hard poseur.

other side of the coin is that, not among critics but among music-inclined friends (many of whom are unregenerate punks, rockers, indies & metalheads), i find that my enthusiasm for sade often raises eyebrows. was so in the 90s and hasn't changed much since.

Actually I love "Smooth Operator." Love Deluxe has some shitty New-Age style drum loops, but "Pearls" is pretty great if you ignore some of the lyrics. Right now mid-80s production kitsch sounds better than early-90s production kitsch. That'll change, though.

I think I am going to have to killfile this "thewufs" person.

Hey, sorry I wasted your time.

wufs, re: "hipsters"

main problem is that the word is unitary, implies that all hipsters are of a stripe when they aren't. hipsters come in endless varieties, and worse, everyone defines and views them differently. you might as well say "those people over there" for all the real specificity the term possesses.

i mean, i know what i mean when i talk about "hipsters" and i'm sure you do too, but if we were to hash out the details, we'd almost certainly find that we weren't talking about the same people in the same way. plus there's so much pejorative baggage, intended or not.

which is fucked. because it's hard to talk about the interaction of art and culture without taking early adopters and other trendsetters into account. you just have to be careful w/it.

Thanks contenderizer. This is a hard thing to really talk about openly and honestly - too easy to generalize and piss people off, I agree. And often they have a right to be pissed off about it, too.

Anyway, avoiding easy generalizations is a hallmark of good (as opposed to half-assed) criticism.

one of the things that makes u realize how truly great Sade is, is when you hear a great Sade song, and you go, man, what are some other artists like THIS, and then you realize there are none

well i guess there's sweetback

Maxwell?

Tracey Thorn comes closest, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okd7DJhnmc4

dang, man, that's pretty great. sade by way of K&D.

k&d?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VH7V170VL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

school me, i've never heard of them

austrian trip-hop/downtempo DJ duo, popular in the 90s alongside the likes of thievery corp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU789_SJ6Is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL4IoJ42eDo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfnR1cOnfS0

austrian trip-hop/downtempo DJ duo, popular in the 90s alongside the likes miles ahead of thievery corp.

LBI OTM. i was just connecting dots.

if you're interested, rev, check out their G-stoned EP and K&D sessions collection (both pictured & represented above).

haha yeah don't taint k&d by association with their contemporaries. they were like the only good thing to come out of "downtempo."

k&d sessions is still really good it's-too-hot-to-move late-night late summer listening.

i like those thievery corp joints that arent very downtempo, like that doors remix

also lebanese blonde is kinda dope imo

man i owned JAZZANOVA records and i still could not fuck with tc

Haha so true Strongo :)

not a TC fan, but deej OTM re: "lebanese blonde"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d99LRLnPeLg

also copped this after i heard harvey drop it, kills imo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLRf2CX4Iu0

theres a downtempo version i dont like as much but they remixed their own shit & it kinda bangs

K&D was so ubiquitous at a moment in time - don't think I could ever decide to put it on.
I need to give Sweetback another go tho

I enjoyed the Sweetback album a lot at the time (it was as close as I ever got to buying a Sade record between the "Your Love Is King" 12" and the Soldier Of Love album) - must find out whether it still holds up.

The Brainwasher

Only one of those doing anything for me is the Who Is David Byrne? joint

sweetback is sade btw, just wout the singer

yeah, i know that