Why would anyone want to be a music journalist RATHER than a musician?

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― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 19:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Does that mean reading a whole bunch of books is the same as writing them, or do you have to read them aloud? Or be seen reading them, but what if you just hold them in front of you on the bus when you're actually illiterate and are holding it upside down? Also, maybe Lars Ulrich should hang out in public libraries and rip the last page out of everything in the 'mystery' section

― dave q, Tuesday, 10 June 2003 19:42 (twenty-three years ago)

but dave, the whole point of this thread and other, is that writing isn't an art, but banging away on a guitar (acoustic preferably) clearly is

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 19:43 (twenty-three years ago)

you can just rub the needle

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 19:44 (twenty-three years ago)

arf

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 19:44 (twenty-three years ago)

the whole point of this thread and other, is that writing isn't an art, but banging away on a guitar (acoustic preferably) clearly is

It is??? If you say so...

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 19:47 (twenty-three years ago)

i think that was implied

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 19:47 (twenty-three years ago)

also the notion that musicians aren't parasites must be dispensed with (every girlfriend/waitress in athens/olympia to thread)

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 19:50 (twenty-three years ago)

what was implied?

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 19:51 (twenty-three years ago)

I apologize for using the word "parasitic" to describe music criticism, which got many people justifiably exercised and was excessively tendentious. In the ideal situation, music and criticism would have a symbiotic relationship, meaning that both would provide a useful function for the other. Musicians would be inspired by critics and vice versa. But in reality, I'm not sure how often it happens. Do musicians ever cite music criticism as a major influence on their music? In my experience, they tend to cite other bands and sometimes even authors or filmmakers, but I honestly can't remember too many times I've seen them cite critics. Perhaps someone could provide some examples of this.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 10 June 2003 21:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Music critics have inspired Public Enemy's "Don't Believe the Hype", Sonic Youth's "I Killed Christgau,", Lou Reed's *Take No Prisoners,*, Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Don't Ask Me No Questions", and the Mr. T Experience's "I Wrote a Book About Rock and Roll," among other music.

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 June 2003 22:08 (twenty-three years ago)

And oh yeah, those REM and Ramones songs that mention Lester Bangs, and "Borneo Jimmy" by the Dictators, which is about Richard Meltzer (who inspired Blue Oyster Cult to use his lyrics). And "Chuck E's in Love" by Rickie Lee Jones. I'm sure there are many other examples.

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 June 2003 22:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Anyway, forget all that -- just because musicians don't CITE critics among their influences doesn't mean they're not influenced by them. Rock musicians lie about their influences all the time (assuming they even KNOW who their influences are. Which they usually don't!)

― chuck, Tuesday, 10 June 2003 22:14 (twenty-three years ago)

'chuck e's in love' haha

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 00:06 (twenty-three years ago)

the whole point of this thread and other, is that writing isn't an art, but banging away on a guitar (acoustic preferably) clearly is

WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE AN ART??

― di smith (lucylurex), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 01:31 (twenty-three years ago)

cuz it's not important if it's not an artform.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 02:28 (twenty-three years ago)

banking isn't important?

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 02:44 (twenty-three years ago)

ah, but banking IS an artform

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 03:23 (twenty-three years ago)

and so my theory holds true

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 03:23 (twenty-three years ago)

arthur anderson to thread.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 05:01 (twenty-three years ago)

but dave, the whole point of this thread and other, is that writing isn't an art, but banging away on a guitar (acoustic preferably) clearly is
-- James Blount (****************[email protected]), June 10th, 2003.

I STARTED THIS THREAD and NO! That WAS NOT the point of it.

i think that was implied
-- jess (*************@hotmail.com), June 10th, 2003.

CERTAINLY NOT BY ME!!!

― mei (mei), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 05:12 (twenty-three years ago)

I wish people would remember the difference between art and craft.

I was going to say something along the lines of "I read the music press. All the time. And I used to clip out articles and paste them in a scrapbook. That makes ME a music journalist! Woo!"

But then Dave Q beat me to it.

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 07:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Of course music critics are parasites. But maybe in a nice way, like yoghurt.

― dave q, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 07:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Or those white birds that ride on the backs of rhinos and peck bugs out of their skin folds?

― David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 07:58 (twenty-three years ago)

I really should stop reading The Selfish Gene. I can't stop thinking of the relationship between the music press and musicians in terms of memes and ESS's and I'm wondering if it's actually parasitism or symbiosis and which tactic corresponds to grudgers or suckers or tit for tat...

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 08:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, but yoghurt's gross.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 08:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Plus they sell it in those multi-packs with only one good flavour so you end up with a fridge full of the raspberry ones way past their sell-by date, which is sort of like reading music mags in a way too!

― dave q, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 08:58 (twenty-three years ago)

But I like yoghurt! Especially Raspberry.

I'm thinking the yoghurt analogy is good. Take stuff that other people have produced (musicians::cows) and partially digest it, wait till it's past its sell-by date and turn it into "culture".

Har har, I'm punny.

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 09:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Why would anyone want to be a music journalist RATHER than a dairyman?

― mei (mei), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 09:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Because cowshit stinks worse than bullshit!

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 09:10 (twenty-three years ago)

As anyone familiar with rurality knows, chickenshit stinks worst of all. Where would that apply extended-metaphor wise?

― dave q, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 09:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Well human's worse anyway, off you go

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 11:33 (twenty-three years ago)

-Why would anyone want to be a music journalist RATHER than a musician? (298 new answers)
-music journalists you would really punch in the face (91 new answers)
-Musicians you would really punch in the face (234 new answers)

You do the maths!

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 11:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah but my answer on the 'journo' thread implied pretty much everybody in England, that's gotta be a couple thousand surely?

― dave q, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 11:37 (twenty-three years ago)

231 people would like to punch a musician in the face (yes, I know it spiralled out of control due to a flamewar about racism, but still) while only 91 people would like to punch a music journalist in the face. I'd say you have a very good statistical chance of avoiding a punch in the face by being a music journo and not a musician.

I mean, you can want to punch thousands of people, Dave, but you're still only one person! You can't punch them all at once!

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 11:40 (twenty-three years ago)

I think the stats have somehting to do with how many musicians and how many critics people have even heard of.

If this wasn't ILM they'd be even further unbalanced.

Ask some random person in the street to name a music critic.

― mei (mei), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:16 (twenty-three years ago)

"Nick Hornby!"

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:17 (twenty-three years ago)

They'll be unaware that he's a music critic, and they'll they'll look at you like yr an idiot.

― mei (mei), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Sterling Clover!

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:20 (twenty-three years ago)

"Alex Petridis!"

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:20 (twenty-three years ago)

They might say David Mellor.

― mei (mei), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Nick and Andrew, you're disqualified from answering this as you post to ILM.

― mei (mei), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Hmmm. There might be a little flaw in my plan...

― mei (mei), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:24 (twenty-three years ago)

I will ask a random person at work. Hang on.

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:25 (twenty-three years ago)

I asked the blokes at work, and they said "Jonathan King!"

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Fame fame, fatal fame.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Fucking great answer, random people at kate's work.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Of course, now they want to know what I've won, and are making me stand by the printer and stick invoices in envelopes when I've been successfully avoiding any kind of work all day. Grrr, thanks guys.

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:30 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm nopt askinh anyone here to name a random music critic, i'd get a slap.

― mei (mei), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Ha ha, this is great! I asked another bloke at work, and he said "Yes! Yes I can! Fiona Fletcher!" I feel very chuffed now. :-)

― kate (kate), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:33 (twenty-three years ago)

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