i'm kidding it's a total cliche sour grapes thing to say once your career has clearly peaked
― Shippie_Ipley_Dope (some dude), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 14:15 (twelve years ago) link
fmbo is kind of an unfortunately shitty gimmick chorus but overall i'm cool with both of these - better than the majority of love king in my esteemed opinion
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 14:37 (twelve years ago) link
this whole "i don't know if i'm gonna be with u" transition is just killing me, welcome back dreamer
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 14:48 (twelve years ago) link
I've felt a little less engaged with each album, but I'm really felling this new suite instantly.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 15:22 (twelve years ago) link
Huh idk why it's not hitting me at all like that
― lebroner (D-40), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 15:30 (twelve years ago) link
Body-Work sounds better with each listen for me but it's definitely just the prelude groove to "FMBO" for me
― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 15:34 (twelve years ago) link
For me, I mean
i know what you mean abt body work being sparse melodically (for the-dream) but i kind of love how it grinds away
― the-dream's car of the summer (tpp), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 15:38 (twelve years ago) link
FMBO is great. Totally reprehensible, but just so damn great.
'She know I'm a Virgo and I'm impossible to please."
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 15:45 (twelve years ago) link
I don't think fmbo is reprehensible on it's own, it just makes the dream come off poorly as a human being. Song itself doesn't strike me as partic objectionable nb I may not have given the lyrics a complete close reading
― lebroner (D-40), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 15:53 (twelve years ago) link
His king-dick fantasies are a hell of a lot more imaginative and memorable than most
― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:01 (twelve years ago) link
I mean, his sex is so good that his ex- who is leaving him for cheating is demanding a last round of amazing sex, etc. etc. etc.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:09 (twelve years ago) link
For whatever reason, Make-Up Bag was light enough that it felt like a humourous toss-off and I didn't find it as skeezy as some dudes did, but this is just undeniably shitty behaviour. But it's a killer song, so, you know.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:11 (twelve years ago) link
I don't think anyone has brought up the coda yet, but it's gorgeous. "I'll always miss THAT KISS / A lover's delight" all multitracked harmonies. It's really gentle and pretty.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:12 (twelve years ago) link
oh noes, no strings sex! odious! reprehensible! literally have no idea what u prudes are moaning about
in particular the notion that this song makes him come off poorer "as a human being" than the trite plodding idiocy of 'make up bag' or god idk a hundred other little things over the years is just laughable
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:45 (twelve years ago) link
lol
― bnw, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:46 (twelve years ago) link
Lol
I think it's fair to say this has a pretty high narcissism factor relative to his other stuff. But yah idg what is objectionable about it
― lebroner (D-40), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:47 (twelve years ago) link
maybe there should be a "but i denied her/mind-blowing sex/i denied her/out of respect" coda
― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:48 (twelve years ago) link
rtc otm -- not even nearly as odious as "I luv your girl"
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:49 (twelve years ago) link
let's check the odi-ometer
― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:50 (twelve years ago) link
I think theres def an increased level of egotism relative to "i luv your girl" but maybe it's that the music is a lot less coy
― lebroner (D-40), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:51 (twelve years ago) link
oh jeez. i have no issues with no string sex. seriously.
what's gross about FMBO is how after a highly public break up he's written a song about how no matter how much of a jerk is, his ex-girlfriend is in thrall to his awesome magical penis. i mean, it's a good song, but it's still all sorts of gross.
and yes, he's done angry/bitter/vaguely misogynist breakup songs before i.e. nikki, abyss, whatever, but in all those cases there was the vague rationalization of he's angry and was cheated on and there's a source of the gross bitterness.
but if you don't find something kind of distasteful about a guy bragging about how desperate his ex-wife was for his dick even after he cheated on her immediately after they had a kid, etc. etc. then i can't explain it.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:53 (twelve years ago) link
but it's not an objectionable song. so i don't know why i'm arguing this.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
it would be nice if when terius was listening to prince as i assume hes doing 24/7 he took notes on how to be a freak without being a pig
― ☂ (max), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
has he rhymed milian with "vill-i-an" yet
― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 16:55 (twelve years ago) link
― ☂ (max), Wednesday, June 8, 2011 12:54 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark
Right, this. Thank you, max, for being more succinct and articulate than me.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:04 (twelve years ago) link
lol alex when u first heard 'living a lie' did u also shed a little tear imagining what nivea would think when she found out about terius and rihanna's shock affair
not every song in the world is directly autobiographical
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:08 (twelve years ago) link
that's clearly what he's suggesting by saying a song about your ex tearfully begging you for mindblowing sex is kinda distasteful coming from a recently divorced dude
― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:10 (twelve years ago) link
like, I dig this song but I don't feel the pretend those who think its piggish are being absurd.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:11 (twelve years ago) link
the need to pretend, i mean
yeah but my point is the "recently divorced" alarm is just being activated arbitrarily here, like is there some milian-specific detail i'm missing in this?
and alex even if you wanna go there how does "i don't need another bitch to lie to me" not fit in with your vague bitter rationalization etc anyway?
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:13 (twelve years ago) link
max otm
but i think ppl kinda demand piggishness in their modern R&B
or at least artists think we do
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:15 (twelve years ago) link
my other point is how is it any more "piggish" than he's ever been since the very beginning once you take a couple of raunchy couplets out of the equation, this is just beyond superficial stuff
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:16 (twelve years ago) link
Jeez. Ok. I concede, I was wrong and I shouldn't have read it in. I'd probably find it vaguely distasteful context-regardless, and on reflection I probably find Abyss even less pleasant. None of this means that I don't enjoy them as songs, and I have no desire to be the voice of ridiculous moral outrage or whatever.
It was a vague impression and I stupidly decided to defend my rxn when the idea that the story as written/sung/narrated has weird gender overtones was declared to be prudish and laughable, etc. But yeah, it's not 'reprehensible', I should have picked my words more carefully. Thread can continue along normal course now, sorry for the interruption.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:18 (twelve years ago) link
i think you can be kinda bummed/grossed out in his transformation from chubby, unlikely loverman to sweaty las vegas sleazeball without it being moral outrage
― Jacques_Lamure, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:19 (twelve years ago) link
actually, listening to FMBO, i dont really see how this is all that piggish, allowing for some stupid/juvenille boasts, though i expect those kinds of lyrics from the dream - i mean, isnt this what he does most consistently? its not as vulgarly/crudely personal as say, r kelly might do. if i didnt know about his public breakup, and tbh i barely do - he/this doesnt have as much celeb appeal as say if the song was sung by chris brown a few years back - i dont think i would read it that way.
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:24 (twelve years ago) link
or it could just be that i really like both songs so dont care
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:25 (twelve years ago) link
fwiw i had a kid right around the same time as Nash/Milian and my general mindstate then of "how the fuck do you even think of creeping or walking out on somebody at that moment in your life" was the main source of my take on "Make Up Bag" and as the instigator of that whole line of conversation i will say nothing about these new songs strikes me as beyond his usual relatively inoffensive skeeviness.
― Letters From Iwhiney Gima (some dude), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:30 (twelve years ago) link
xxxp Last word on this.
There's pretty much nothing on Love/Hate that's has the same sort of tone. "I Luv Your Girl" got cited a couple of times, and while picking up someone else's girlfriend isn't like...gentlemanly...or whatever, but what was triggering my sensor or whatever only really surfaces in Nikki, Love vs Money Part 2, Nikki Part 2 and Abyss. Oh, and Hater.
I'm not saying women aren't objectified in his other songs, but normally they're being wooed or he's having sex with them, or being admired, or whatever. They're either sex objects or objects of affection. Just....when he gets angry/dismissive/vitriolic about women it feels uglier somehow.
But again, FMBO does this less than the others, maybe, and I really like all of the above songs (except for Hater). It was an observation about tone and content, not quality, because I like FMBO better than most of Love King.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:31 (twelve years ago) link
from chubby, unlikely loverman to sweaty las vegas sleazeball
good career summary
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:32 (twelve years ago) link
personally i just find laziness and carelessness way uglier than angry/dismissive/vitriolic at the end of the day
if he's a pig here then he's a sprightly attentive one for a change and not the useless fat fuck of 'make up bag' and 'panties to the side' or the guy who trashed 'february love' by breaking off for a hatercentric tirade about his taxes and owning his publishing or w/e
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:42 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i mean anybody who says "ahem, this guys a douche, no thanks" won't get a cross word out of me, but "FMBO" is the kind of "big ol' butt" style, heavily detailed and absurd "i'm a douche and loving it" shit that I'm not above enjoying. I don't know if it ranks with my favorite dream songs, but I'll take uptempo-and-nasty over the more indulgent slow jams of late
― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:48 (twelve years ago) link
also it's not a great tune or anything but i have much love for 'hater' and its succinctly otm depiction of the evil side of wanting someone
"hit that shit like a parked car" one of his finest lines too
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:50 (twelve years ago) link
all the Prince comparisons had me looking forward to another "Fast Car"/"Yamaha" jam and then i felt let down by those "Beat It" drums
kind of novel for him to put out these connected songs in advance instead of waiting until the LP to run them together, but i'm not really digging the transition between them
― Letters From Iwhiney Gima (some dude), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:51 (twelve years ago) link
it's more Ready For The World than Prince imo
― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:51 (twelve years ago) link
― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 18:48 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
otm
― r|t|c, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 17:52 (twelve years ago) link
The Prince comparisons always seem kind off to me, as with RTTW I kinda see The-Dream as one of those blouse wearing linn drum enthusiasts who came in his wake (if an especially ambitious) rather than a callback to the original article. Even on Love/Hate his perspective was more typically R&B assman, like ray parker jr.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 June 2011 18:00 (twelve years ago) link
I think this guy is more "Digital Display" and "Love You Down" than "When Doves Cry" or "Raspberry Beret."
xpost
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 June 2011 18:01 (twelve years ago) link
the Prince thing doesn't make sense in other words
crossposted with croup