yeah there's something kind of silly about senor as a whole, but dylan really sells it -- all the versions I've heard, you can tell he really enjoys singing it.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 24 May 2011 22:49 (thirteen years ago) link
well, it's a set of Dylan-parody lines looking for a home, right? The world's best Dylan imitator writing his own Dylan song.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 24 May 2011 22:52 (thirteen years ago) link
lincoln county rooooad ... or armageddon?! haha
― tylerw, Tuesday, 24 May 2011 22:57 (thirteen years ago) link
did dylan ever acknowledge disco in any sense btw?
I've just spent 15 minutes looking for something I can't find: a late-'70s interview where someone asks him if his new music's disco, and he says something like, "No, the Village People are disco, I'm not disco." He says it in a way that's funny and playful, not resentful, and in a way that made it seem like he was very aware of what was happening elsewhere musically. (I thought it would have been the '78 Rolling Stone interview, but it's not there.)
There's this, though, from his '84 Rolling Stone interview: "I've seen a lot of stuff written about me. People must be crazy. I mean responsible people. Especially on that Street Legal tour. That band we assembled then, I don't think that will ever be duplicated. It was a big ensemble. And what did people say? I mean, responsible people who know better. All I saw was "Bruce Springsteen" because there was a saxophone player. And it was "disco" — well, there wasn't any disco in it."
He seemed a little less playful at that point. Earlier in the same interview he mentioned Cisco Houston.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 24 May 2011 23:33 (thirteen years ago) link
i like bangs and all but his focus on how 'joey' was undermined by its subject being an asshole seemed sort of blinkered to me -- i mean, jesse james was a bad guy too!
yeah but if you write a song "About" jesse james that's just a bunch of self-pitying cliches, contrasting them with the actual facts of james is a good way to point out what crap it is
― da croupier, Tuesday, 24 May 2011 23:35 (thirteen years ago) link
I love all those Emmylou Harris harmonies on Desire.
― banjoboy, Tuesday, 24 May 2011 23:41 (thirteen years ago) link
Not Heard "Wiggle Wiggle" so in my imagination it sounds a lot like Roy Orbison's "Ooby Dooby".
Does it?
― Mark G, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 09:47 (thirteen years ago) link
I love Mozambique - it's funny.
Classic - Sara, IsisV good - Hurricane, Mozambique, One More Cup of CoffeeOK - Oh Sister, Romance in Durango, Black Diamond BayDud - Joey
― We need to talk about Bevan (DL), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 10:08 (thirteen years ago) link
I like Desire, but the tracklisting is always Hurricane, Isis, Mozambique, Coffee, skiiiip, Sara
Hurricane probs my favourite Dylan song.
― sometimes all it takes is a healthy dose of continental indiepop (tomofthenest), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 10:34 (thirteen years ago) link
Is this Lester Bangs takedown of Desire available online anywhere? Sounds fascinating.
― Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 10:49 (thirteen years ago) link
here you go... http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/smalltalkatthewall/message/42037
― sometimes all it takes is a healthy dose of continental indiepop (tomofthenest), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 10:56 (thirteen years ago) link
Lawrence from Felt on some of those later Dylan records:
"What I liked about…Bob Dylan were the brilliant lyrics, but after ‘Desire’ why didn’t Dylan use synths instead of saxes and soul backing singers? He wore flares, didn’t acknowledge the new wave, and that dated him"
anyway...
― dell (del), Wednesday, May 25, 2011 8:08 AM (13 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
I love Lawrence so so so much
Ballad In Plain D is clearly the worse. No-one has ever listened to it more than once. NO-ONE.
― Spikey, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 12:12 (thirteen years ago) link
Any lover knows you skip the first songs on each side of Desire. Then you only get the Jung psych cross the border tales.
― David Allah Coal (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 12:52 (thirteen years ago) link
whoa, really? you skip Hurricane? why?
― sometimes all it takes is a healthy dose of continental indiepop (tomofthenest), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 13:01 (thirteen years ago) link
cuz I married ISIS on the fifth day of May!
― David Allah Coal (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 13:06 (thirteen years ago) link
oh, you're one of those CRAZY PEOPLE who LISTEN TO LYRICS, that would explain it ;-)
― sometimes all it takes is a healthy dose of continental indiepop (tomofthenest), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 13:08 (thirteen years ago) link
hey. I listen to music, too.
― David Allah Coal (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 15:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Look at it this way: every four years Dylan writes a `new' protest song and it's always about a martyred nigger and he always throws in a dirty word to make it more street-authentic. I don't use the word `nigger' for effect or to make myself look hip, but rather because just like our fathers before us that is all Jackson and Carter have been to him: another human life to exploit for his own purposes.
uh...
fuckin Lester
rmde
― metally ill (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 15:41 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah i like lester bangs, but he was wrong a lot of the time.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 15:43 (thirteen years ago) link
My favorite of these is "Rainy Day Women". I like the drunken marching band sound and it's funny.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 15:50 (thirteen years ago) link
The worst song: "Rainy Day Women."
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, May 24, 2011 12:36 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/poophead2/laughing_o_GIFSoupcom.gif
― flopson, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 15:52 (thirteen years ago) link
that Lester piece is pretty epic... don't really agree with him that the biggest problem with Joey is that it takes liberties with the facts, seems like he got rather hung up on that
― metally ill (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:07 (thirteen years ago) link
Hm. Although I haven't read it in years, I thought he was more disgusted with Dylan's stupid romanticizing of this thug.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:09 (thirteen years ago) link
well yeah, same difference.
also do vinyl pressings of Desire totally suck or what? can't believe they could actually fit 30 minutes on side 2
― metally ill (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:10 (thirteen years ago) link
but there IS a difference.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:10 (thirteen years ago) link
even if he'd read a NYT article verbatim it's a halfwitted song.
I dunno, I take it as a given that pop music is going to involve the stupid romanticization of thugs, it's a pretty ancient lyrical conceit.
― metally ill (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:13 (thirteen years ago) link
the song (which I am listening to RIGHT NOW) is interminable and pretty boring tho
― metally ill (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:14 (thirteen years ago) link
there are two versions of "Forever Young" on Planet Waves, right? i like the fast one.
― I'm 11 and I love Gay Dad. Today's music is so formulaic its appalling. (will), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:14 (thirteen years ago) link
xp yeah, i mean, as far as stupid romanticization of thugs, dylan wrote a whole album about billy the kid. (and i love that album)
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:15 (thirteen years ago) link
On the other Dylan thread, i suggested that "Dark Eyes" make this list.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:16 (thirteen years ago) link
^PG & BTK is one of my faves of his from the 70s. I know it's 60% filler. But it's damn good filler.
― I'm 11 and I love Gay Dad. Today's music is so formulaic its appalling. (will), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:17 (thirteen years ago) link
Well, the difference is that the cowboy era is already suffused with enough mythos to allow him some wiggle room. Gallo is one of those guys at the bar in Goodfellas.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:17 (thirteen years ago) link
so comedy acceptable romanticization = tragedy + time
― metally ill (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:20 (thirteen years ago) link
I could write extended remarks on aging hippies, in an attempt to stay relevant and hold fast to their weird obsession with heroes and martyrs, picking dumb subjects for songs in the seventies and eighties.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:20 (thirteen years ago) link
would so pay to watch Alan Alda play Gallo.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:21 (thirteen years ago) link
picking dumb subjects for songs in the seventies and eighties.
oh man can we make a poll out of this
― metally ill (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:22 (thirteen years ago) link
Patti Smith and Dylan would crowd the competition.
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:25 (thirteen years ago) link
i dunno, i guess i think of "joey" as an exercise in mythmaking -- like dylan *knows* it's bullshit in the same way he knows that billy the kid is kinda bullshit. but the larger than life idea of these guys in the imagination and in song, that's what he's interested in. has dylan ever been interested in "facts"? maybe i'm giving him too much credit. it's not like my fave song or anything, but i think just taking it at face value, saying dylan thinks joey gallo was a rad, admirable dude, might be a mistake. also, i like the opening lines: Born in Red Hook Brooklyn in the year of who knows whenOpened up his eyes to the tune of an accordionAlways on the outside whatever side there wasWhen they asked him why it had to be that way "Well" he answered "just because".
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:26 (thirteen years ago) link
My list of Dylan's ten worst, in no order:
1. The Times They Are A-Changin'2. Disease of Conceit3. Lenny Bruce4. Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands5. Ballad in Plain D6. Joey7. Mozambique8. Is Your Love in Vain?9. Neighborhood Bully10. Rainy Day Women
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:30 (thirteen years ago) link
i dunno, i guess i think of "joey" as an exercise in mythmaking
i think everyone does, people just debate whether it's a good one
― da croupier, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:33 (thirteen years ago) link
and it's a little facetious to say "has dylan ever been interested in facts?" when we're talking about a song on the same album as "hurricane"
― da croupier, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:37 (thirteen years ago) link
that sonofabitch is BRAVE AND GETTIN' BRAVER!
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:40 (thirteen years ago) link
well, hurricane ain't exactly factually correct either ...is that what you mean? didn't he have to go to court to explain some of the writer's license he and levy took with that song?
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:43 (thirteen years ago) link
He cared about the fact that a guy was in jail for reasons he felt were wrong. To say he's not being lazy, but 'just playing with myths' is undercut by the actual protest song on the album.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:45 (thirteen years ago) link
haha just looked at the wikipedia page for "joey" and totally forgot about the song being inspired by dylan having dinner with Gallo pal Jerry Orbach.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:53 (thirteen years ago) link
you would write that song too if you had lunch with jerry orbach.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 16:56 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah but I would write a song about Jerry Orbach instead!
― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:01 (thirteen years ago) link
jerrrrry jerrrrry, what made them want to put your baby in a corrrrner...?
― tylerw, Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:02 (thirteen years ago) link
I was fixing to ask about this. I've only known the album on cd, and always wondered what it took to squeeze 56 minutes on a piece of vinyl. At the same time you wish that Dylan or whoever said "Fuck it--let's make a double", so the album could have room for classic outtake stuff like "Abandoned Love", "Golden Loom", "Catfish" etc.
― Handjobs for a sport (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 17:14 (thirteen years ago) link