ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

man Shakey will find as many ways as he can to say "shut up offended lesbian you don't get to express your opinion"

I'm hoping for a Fat Mike guest spot on the next Tyler mixtape when he covers "Creeping Out Sara".

glaad roots out homophobia like a delicious, hateful truffle

"counterproductive" is always a great way that privileged people tell others to shut the fuck up & get on board

it's funny to think of shakey as being privileged

i mean, i get it, but it just sounds funny

I prefer stfu, it sounds more official

I'm not even on board with this band! I am just a hardcore free speech guy, what can I say. I'm not telling anybody to shut up. Tegan and Sara can say whatever the fuck they want. But let's not pretend like they're having the (I presume) desired adverse affect on OF.

xp

like, this is just bad tactics. you want to shut down homophobia, this is not the way to do it.

whats your desired affect here, dude?

i mean if you've got the good tactics a hardcore free speech guy would use, what are they

stfu da croupier, shakey's gonna tell us how to shut down homophobia

I hope it involves image macros

passive aggressive post-it notes on tyler's fridge

putting a character loosely based on tyler in an upcoming episode of glee, having him learn about homophobia and how word hurt and end the episode with him & the cast singing "being boring" by pet shop boys

fuck the half-stepping, just cast tyler in glee

^^^^ I would finally watch

tell me more about these post-it notes tho

putting a character loosely based on tyler in an upcoming episode of glee, having him learn about homophobia and how word hurt and end the episode with him & the cast singing "being boring" by pet shop boys

lol would watch

i mean if you've got the good tactics a hardcore free speech guy would use, what are they

I think there's a couple different issues at work here. One is shock value - OF is clearly an act that revels in doing things for shock value. If you want to rob something of it's shock value, the key is, duh, not to allow yourself to be shocked by it. Ignore it.

Now underneath the shock value is actual homophobia (which, frankly I don't really think OF are - at least not in the way that, say, 5 Percenters are), and dealing with that underlying issue requires stuff I'm sure GLAAD is hard at work on: legal protections, outreach, publicity, ie things that make it clear to homophobes that gay people are just like everyone else, deserving of the same level of respect, and that being gay is no big deal. Barring instances of specific incitement (ie, telling a crowd to kill someone at the show for being gay or something) I don't think getting into specific aesthetic criticisms of specific artists is really helpful in achieving these goals. It's too complex, and more often than not it just backfires and plays into the performers' hands. It's like when Vice interviewed those Nazi twin folk singer girls - regardless of the editors' intent, they just raised the band's profile.

but what if those nazi twin folk singer girls debuted at #5 on the billboard albums chart

if jon stewart didn't say anything *I'd* be offended

kinda what i was trying to get at before is that this has been aimed at and written about by indie-land people and its shocking to them cuz all they listen to is sweater-vest music. they don't listen to rap that much. 20+ years of gross-out/super-violent rap has totally passed them by. until now apparently.

woah what if odd future joined the 5 percent nation????

tyler's prodigious talents coupled with knowledge of self could be a dangerous thing

I eagerly await GLAAD's defense of Mister C btw

Cee

kinda what i was trying to get at before is that this has been aimed at and written about by indie-land people and its shocking to them cuz all they listen to is sweater-vest music. they don't listen to rap that much. 20+ years of gross-out/super-violent rap has totally passed them by. until now apparently.

not really - the tactic ppl take if you complain about this stuff in under-the-radar shit is then "who cares? nobody's listening anyway!" there's always a way to say "homophobia & misogyny don't matter," you just have to keep yr nose to the grindstone

found some of the responses to the mr. cee thing, by 50 and prodigy esp, pretty heartening

i mean the people offended don't listen to it and all of a sudden some pitchfork-type tells them how great this stuff is and they can't believe their ears. they lead sheltered lives. but i'm all for them being against it. it would be nice to see creative responses to the music. so far the people intrigued about the music and the people who like the music seem to be writing the best stuff about it.

xxxp: I was wondering what homophobic messages I missed on "Ebeneezer Goode"

but what if those nazi twin folk singer girls debuted at #5 on the billboard albums chart

maybe if they'd had more advance hysterical hand-wringing press coverage (rather than just a lone article in Vice) they would have

xp

well not everyone. there have been good responses on here from people who take issue with the stuff. but in written stuff off of here not so much.

found some of the responses to the mr. cee thing, by 50 and prodigy esp, pretty heartening

yeah that was interesting

whenever you publicly protest something someone has said or done, you're necessarily (hopefully) bringing increased attention to them. this works in various ways, and yes, can gift your target with a perverse sort of "success". rev fred phelps & co would be much less well-known were it not for those who've found cause for outrage in their actions.

don't think this suggests that people like T&S shouldn't speak out about that which they find intolerable.

man watching Shakey minimize people's responses w/classic hegemonic "you're overreacting!" style is so disheartening & icky

yeah I don't buy into that "they bought it cuz the press wrote about it", at least in this day and age

ppl might casually download some car wreck shit like nazi folk twins but they are plunking down hard earned cash nowadays because something like OF resonates with them

xps

if you complain about this stuff in under-the-radar shit is then "who cares? nobody's listening anyway!"

I'm not sure this is directed at me, but personally, I don't react this way. if I'm engaged by something, I don't really care how many other people are listening to it - that's immaterial.

xxxp

man watching Shakey minimize people's responses w/classic hegemonic "you're overreacting!" style is so disheartening & icky

c'mon dude how many times do you have to see this play out? Alice Cooper, the Sex Pistols, Public Enemy, NWA/Cube, Ice-T - all unforgivably offensive/transgressive/dangerous in their day, now lauded as upstanding citizens that made groundbreaking work. Public displays of approbation just don't work when it comes to this kind of thing.

oops forgot 2 Live Crew

people have the right to complain about whatever they want, but there's ample evidence that this kind of complaining does not achieve the intended effect.

Alice Cooper, the Sex Pistols, Public Enemy, NWA/Cube, Ice-T - all unforgivably offensive/transgressive/dangerous in their day, now lauded as upstanding citizens that made groundbreaking work.

what about the Insane Clown Posse and WASP

Do you remember when Sebastian Bach got in trouble for wearing a shirt that said "AIDS kills fags dead"? and now he stars in Broadway musicals and shit?

whether something "works" or not isn't even remotely the point - a lesbian voices her outrage over stuff she finds misogynist & homophobic and you drag out the word "hysterical" - that's fucking repulsive and you should be ashamed of yourself - next time you feel a twinge of anger over the whole righty "unhinged left" caricature, remember that that's the exact game you brought to the table to ridicule the quieter voice in a conversation

also Sara Quin's post was directed at challenging OF enthusiasts in indie culture, far more than an attempt to shut Tyler up himself

whether something "works" or not isn't even remotely the point -

?

the quieter voice in a conversation

also lol at the idea that my voice is louder than GLAAD or Tegan and Sara or even yours dude

like nobody knows who the fuck I am and outside of the 10 people reading this thread nobody cares either, so let's stop identifying me as the hegemonic oppressor and shit

there you go again, being The Man and telling us all what to do

o rly

http://www.aeronewsdaily.com/122909.jpg

"works/doesn't work" isn't pertinent in any way & you know it - nothing anybody can do will persuade Tyler that he should be more considerate - nobody's trying to make that effect, in any way - Tegan & Sara as croup points out is calling guys like yrself out for bending over backwards to tell people how they shouldn't feel when they're being insulted & marginalized - you are speaking on behalf of the hegemony here; you've taken it upon yourself to go "lol, you're offended!" at somebody who just expressed her opinion - that makes you the bad guy as far as I'm concerned & as we discussed earlier, your privilege counts as privilege whether you've got a lot of weight to throw around or just the small-stakes of a meaningless thread

the "quieter voice" is Sara Q btw - I'm loud as fuck and everybody knows it because of my great popularity & influence