ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

It is not without great hesitation and hand wringing that I enter into the discourse about Tyler, the media who glorifies and excuses misogyny and homophobia, and the community of artists that doesn’t seem remotely bothered by it. I can only hope that someone reading this might be inspired to speak out. At the very least, I will know that my voice is on record.

god this npr thing is so stupid

i thought mark richardson's column today was v. good, odd future vs. big L related

yeah that npr thing was really really really bad

that jaime woman says "they aren't hip hop" next song they play the beat sounds exactly like slow ride from licensed to ill

they kinda just sound like two random people after 3 beers

*While listening to the NPR debate*

Does the woman who is ant-Odd Future realize that the music isn't the source but how black kids are raised is the source? I really hate when black people say aritsts need to be responsible while not touching on the sexism, homophobia, and self-racism of the black community itself (and the USA as a whole). I'm kinda glad that Odd Future exist as it kind of exposes that part of the black community in an ugly way.

But I do agree that Odd Future are being seen as a freak show to hipsters to a certain extent (I forgot all about the calamity which was the Kill Whitey parties).

Odd Whitey Party Gang Kill Them All

Thank god I remembered that tegan & Sara aren't cocorosie

weird - i don't see them as all that freak show at all - isn't their novelty and appeal for kids that they're goofy depresso adult swim internet nerd skateboard gross-out horny misogynist offensive class clowns - which is way more plain old teenage boy than anything... really they seem more like an updated post-internet "license to ill" thing than anything

they seem less "freak show" or exotic or whatever than wu-tang or something - wu-tang was way more on some weird fantasy superhero shit than these doofuses

but maybe i'm way off i just heard a little bit here and there

nah I think that's OTM

altho in general I agree with deej that they are not really all that awesome/remarkable - the music's pretty hit or miss. there's some undeniably good rapping and the occasional great hook/beat but seems like there's a lot of crap to wade through. quantity over quality in the internet age, no surprise...

I do find them fun in a "lol teenagers" way

when tyler describes his writing as being about "raping a bitch" in response to an interview question in the NPR piece it kinda sucks imo & makes Sara Quinn's point; that's not "in character" or anything. It's a total pass for using "bitch" to mean "woman," not as part of a constructed performing persona, but in conversation.

new eminem more than new beastie boys

xp

yeah, I noticed a while ago there was an interview where he was talking about the Fallon performance, and saying something about his idea to "dress a bitch up like a zombie." like, really? ugh.

it's kinda hard to make the argument that OF are worse than garden variety rap & cite casual uses of "bitch" as an example (not that it makes it right, but)

^^^

people only get pissed off about this when it reaches a certain cultural zeitgeist-y state, the rest of the time hey it's like black metal or 99% of hip hop (ie perfectly ignorable)

no, I remain at a simmering level of bummed out about it all the time and when it reaches that zeitgeist-y state, then there's a reason/excuse to talk about it some - same with why one talks about Varg but doesn't really spend a lot of time grousing about 100 Ukrainian/Russian nsbm bands

when tyler describes his writing as being about "raping a bitch" in response to an interview question in the NPR piece it kinda sucks imo & makes Sara Quinn's point; that's not "in character" or anything. It's a total pass for using "bitch" to mean "woman," not as part of a constructed performing persona, but in conversation.

― Steven Tyler the Creator (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, May 13, 2011 6:36 PM (2 hours ago)

of course it's part of his constructed performing persona! an intelligent person responding to a question in that way is being purposefully absurd and clearly, intentionally provocative. if glenn benton responded to an interview question by saying his writing is about drinking the consecrated blood of virgins from the skulls of infants no one would say, wow, now we're really hearing what this man thinks.

believe that if you like, free country etc - he was describing his writing and comparing it to a director making movies with violence in them. at that level of discussing one's craft, I think it incredibly naive, or really charitable I guess, to think "sure, he just used 'bitch' there as part of his public persona"

Some folks are giving a 20-year-old way too much credit for general intelligence and thoughtfulness. Yes, he can come up with an interesting beat or two. Yes, he's got a flair for wordplay. That doesn't make him any smarter or any more emotionally mature than any other 20-year-old, and seriously, I don't want to hear anything most 20-year-olds, male or female, have to say, whether they're artists or not. And I suspect most over-30s in this thread would agree with me.

(Right about now, I think Tyler's crowning achievement so far is the OF album covers and general visual style - that shit is fantastic, way more interesting than his lyrics or music. He should give up music and become a graphic designer.)

part of his persona is being a crude offensive rapper. if he all of a sudden stopped saying 'bitch' and talked in high tones about how 'sexually assaulting women is a purely representational aesthetic decision' would that make things ok? I don't have to be told that, I can read between the lines here.

xp

Some folks are giving a 20-year-old way too much credit for general intelligence and thoughtfulness.

This makes me want to assemble a bunch of "Tyler or Taylor?" ILX quotes and see if we can guess which one they're about.

part of his persona is being a crude offensive rapper. if he all of a sudden stopped saying 'bitch' and talked in high tones about how 'sexually assaulting women is a purely representational aesthetic decision' would that make things ok? I don't have to be told that, I can read between the lines here.

this is so hilarious - there's actually a whooooole load of space between talking in "high tones" and being able to find some word for 'woman' other than 'bitch' but people who're determined to imagine that this guy is "constructing a public persona" instead of the obvious misogynist & homophobe he is (which isn't to say he's not a great artist, plenty of great artists are reprehensible dudes) are gonna jump through whatever hoops they gotta jump thru I guess

underrated synonyms for 'woman' that i have used

(sorry)

don't be sorry, that was lol!

Some folks are giving a 20-year-old way too much credit for general intelligence and thoughtfulness.

am i wrong in expecting an internet-savvy 20 year old to have been exposed to enough ambient opinion to at least know the parameters within which they're working?

anybody who listens to rap has to come to terms with the word bitch, if that's a hoop I jump thru it every day dude

when tyler describes his writing as being about "raping a bitch" in response to an interview question in the NPR piece it kinda sucks imo & makes Sara Quinn's point; that's not "in character" or anything. It's a total pass for using "bitch" to mean "woman," not as part of a constructed performing persona, but in conversation.

― Steven Tyler the Creator (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, May 13, 2011 6:36 PM (2 hours ago)

of course it's part of his constructed performing persona! an intelligent person responding to a question in that way is being purposefully absurd and clearly, intentionally provocative. if glenn benton responded to an interview question by saying his writing is about drinking the consecrated blood of virgins from the skulls of infants no one would say, wow, now we're really hearing what this man thinks.

― the first rule of debate club (Edward III), Friday, May 13, 2011 9:42 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

any musician that keeps up the veil of artistic persona even when not on record is basically telling the world to take that persona at face value. if there's a nice laid back dude behind closed doors who'd never say that kind of thing to his friends but keeps up the vulgar bigot act on a daily basis every time he's in front of an interviewer or computer, then he's made his choice to appear that way to those of us who don't want as badly to assume that's the case as you do.

in my world of artistic personas

any musician that keeps up the veil of artistic persona even when not on record is basically telling the world to take that persona at face value. if there's a nice laid back dude behind closed doors who'd never say that kind of thing to his friends but keeps up the vulgar bigot act on a daily basis every time he's in front of an interviewer or computer, then he's made his choice to appear that way to those of us who don't want as badly to assume that's the case as you do.

this is well-put though I take mild exception to the claim that I "want to assume" this - I would be happier if I believed in artists micromanaging their interview responses to shape public personae, etc., but I think the actual number of people who do that is generally overstated - managers/press people like to pitch that narrative because it's useful but I think much of the time guys with a mic stuffed in front of their faces just say whatever's on their mind, not "how shall I frame my words to best suit my long-term career goals"

I don't know if this is any kind of defence but when I was a teenager and I heard the misfits sing "i raped your mother today/didn't mean that much to me" I fucking loved it. I never wanted any actual mothers to be raped, or thought any actual mothers would be raped because of this stupid band. I just thought it was nasty and evil and it was fucking liberating to hear somebody be nasty and evil. stupid teenage boys like stupid shit.

it's no excuse or anything but holy fuck are you ever nuts at that age and you really need some disgusting shit to figure yourself out

i don't know.

i liked all kinds of heinous mentors and gg allin and s.o.d. shit and i always knew it was heinous and dumb

and if the standard for what's acceptable art was what makes tegan and sara happy, school shootings would be through the fucking roof

if the standard for what's acceptable art was what makes tegan and sara happy, school shootings would be through the fucking roof

i know you're just being flip, but this is kind of a shitty thread to be flip about feminist POVs on.

this is well-put though I take mild exception to the claim that I "want to assume" this - I would be happier if I believed in artists micromanaging their interview responses to shape public personae, etc., but I think the actual number of people who do that is generally overstated - managers/press people like to pitch that narrative because it's useful but I think much of the time guys with a mic stuffed in front of their faces just say whatever's on their mind, not "how shall I frame my words to best suit my long-term career goals"

― Steven Tyler the Creator (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, May 14, 2011 12:24 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

i was addressing Edward

I apologize if this was already posted but

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDG0gol5JF4

forget tyler, sometimes i wonder if i'll ever grow up before i die. i'm 42 and i still enjoy watching people get offended by things. granted, its too late for me. i'm debased and debauched beyond repair. i had amassed a respectable collection of national lampoons, underground comix, and richard pryor records by the time i was 11 or 12. i could never presume to speak for most people. and i do understand other people's concerns. and i empathize with them. on the other hand, in the past, i have seriously considered getting a tattoo of redd foxx's face on my body. plus, in the end, i kinda do hate humanity, so i'm torn. and maybe not all that empathetic when you get right down to it.

+1 on redd foxx tattoo, go for that shit
long as it's not on my body

i have a big standing rack - kind of a bookstore magazine shelf - near my front window at the store and its great because i can put interesting/new/pricy stuff on it and the covers are facing out and people can see all the cool records outside when they look in the window and on the bottom half of the rack near the floor i started a children's/black humor section. so, lots of disney records and flip wilson records. today i sold the soundtrack to Bambi and a copy of Richard Pryor's Bicentennial Nigger. they were right next to each other. great impulse buy.

Better than a tattoo of Redd Foxx's body on your face, I guess.

Heh. Just got in a weird twitterspat with the LA Weekly over them stanning for this on some sort of "They can't play it on NPR! It must be awesome!" bullshit.

those last few tweets read like they're defending the populist appeal of Larry the Cable Guy or something..

"..if you like giving papers at "Pop Music Conferences" and teaching "writing workshops," you won't like GOBLIN"

I don't know if this is any kind of defence but when I was a teenager and I heard the misfits sing "i raped your mother today/didn't mean that much to me" I fucking loved it. I never wanted any actual mothers to be raped, or thought any actual mothers would be raped because of this stupid band. I just thought it was nasty and evil and it was fucking liberating to hear somebody be nasty and evil.

...i liked all kinds of heinous mentors and gg allin and s.o.d. shit and i always knew it was heinous and dumb

― brio, Friday, May 13, 2011 11:34 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

o fuck yeah. a few months back, "last caress" came up on my ipod (thanks to whoever put together that misfits halloween set), and i walked all over town at night listening to it on endless repeat, even singing along when there was no one in earshot. great song. in it's way, just as heinous as any earl or tyler verse. and yeah, gg, mentors, sod OTM. loved that shit in my youth, when i certainly should have known better. remember senator hollings during the PMRC hearings quoting the mentors line about "on your face i leave a shit tower" and proclaiming it "outrageous filth." he was right, of course, and as a wasted youth, that was exactly why i liked it. my woman from sodom, she lets me fuck her bottom.

. today i sold the soundtrack to Bambi and a copy of Richard Pryor's Bicentennial Nigger. they were right next to each other. great impulse buy.

― scott seward, Saturday, May 14, 2011 3:02 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

= hero

this guy came in today and bought like 20 classical records. i wanted to hum him. and i made a soundtrack collector's day when i sold him a hard to find john barry soundtrack. shit was priced to sell.

he sounds pretty real in this interview. and he ends with the growing up and maturity thing. you get to hear him be savvy about what he's doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OoZNENl0Cg

i'm sure its been posted but god knows where on here.

"hug" him! i've never hummed anyone before.

collector with benefits