ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

I would keep 'Her' in a cut version...works nicely btwn 'Tron Cat' and 'Sandwitches', provides a bit of a breath. Love that run.

yeah i think that's why i'm emphasising that i'm not riled as such - ain't nothing i haven't heard before son - but it also makes him sound like an old square. there's little sadder than some kid trying to be edgy and ending up sounding like a 50-yr-old bigot.

you should download one of the zillion fake copies instead and just sorta groove on neutral milk hotel kill them all

― beefaroni merchant, part-time fish tank bitch. (forksclovetofu), donderdag 12 mei 2011 6:11 (5 hours ago) Bookmark

<3 <3 <3

dude has basically turned into Angry Drake.

lol at this btw

also i'll just do an indirect and say that some american critics are real self-important, whiny lil bitches, aren't they? (i'm not talking about anyone on this thread, or afaik on ilx.)

If you're not talking about anyone on this thread or ILX, I have to ask who the heck you're talking about, because they must be crazy egregious if you're NOT pointing that accusation at anyone here.

"also i'll just do an indirect and say that some american critics are real self-important, whiny lil bitches, aren't they?"

most american critics really. i blame their parents.

disappointed that tyler throws slushies out of car windows at passers by.
goblin
"life's a cute bitch full of estrogen
and when she gives you lemons
n!gga throw them at pedestrians"

should be keeping it real

a rapper naming their album 'goblin' 3 years after lil wayne used the word memorably in one of his biggest songs is some weak shit imo

of all the criticisms...

a rapper naming themselves after a 70's witch house horrorcore band from italy is pretty lame.

naming their album, that is.

i'm just saying, it's like if someone named their album 'dungeon dragon' in 1994 or something

i still haven't played the whole thing yet. is it really 5 hours long? you could always stop it and take a break.

Didn't Nikki Minaj have a hit that prominently used "dungeon dragon" this year? Lame imo

If you were living and breathing in America around the turn of the millennium, it's unlikely you were able to escape the all-encompassing reach of Sisqo's runaway smash "Thong Song." In the wake of such a huge hit, it's almost impossible to imagine RETURN OF THE DRAGON being able to duplicate the success of its predecessor, but you can't blame the guy for trying. As before, Sisqo utilizes a hip-hop informed approach to R&B that's at once accessible enough to make its way smoothly onto the radio and urban enough to play well in jeeps across the country. Percolating synth riffs, chattering drum loops, and smooth background vocals (supplied on one song by none other than Dru Hill) frame the melismatic wail of Sisqo, whose obvious enthusiasm and seemingly inexhaustible energy lie at the core of his appeal. In short, if you bounced your booty to "Thong Song," it's hard to imagine that you'd be disappointed by the not-dissimilar RETURN OF THE DRAGON.

Didn't Nikki Minaj have a hit that prominently used "dungeon dragon" this year? Lame imo

― Number None, Thursday, May 12, 2011 8:55 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

the chorus of "Roman's Revenge" (which was not really a hit) was lame, yes, but not for the reason I was talking about with the above example

"not-dissimilar"

blazin props

If you're not talking about anyone on this thread or ILX, I have to ask who the heck you're talking about, because they must be crazy egregious if you're NOT pointing that accusation at anyone here.

lol

nah it's just some critics i saw bitching about me on twitter after both the weeknd piece and this - acting all offended that someone goes against their cosy consensus. "notrivia", whoever he be. doesn't matter, just...yeah, so self-important.

i don't know or care what tyler does in his personal life, but in the context of his art - his use of rapeyness is just empty violence. when you have nothing to say/rap about (which is actually mostly the reason hip hop died), you resort to immediate and primal violence. rape is just the first association of violence to come to a (lazy) teenager's mind. sort of like a new barbarism. nothing new here, except the fact it actually is getting hard to positively create something in 2011.

odd future is basically hip hop for the 4chan generation

lex, actually i don't think 'notrivia' likes odd future (and weeknd?) that much:

http://no-trivia.tumblr.com/post/4567245397

a rapper naming their album 'goblin' 3 years after lil wayne used the word memorably in one of his biggest songs is some weak shit imo

'Because I Got Uruk Hai'

'Me, My Elf And I'

ok this is making me kinda crazy now... if you're not cool with the word faggot but you're cool with the word bitch or the general misogony, or you don't want to discuss those issues because it's a "lost cause", well, way to stick to yr guns, men of principle. you're not doing any fewer mental backflips than anybody else with a brain listening to it. you've just got yr own idiosyncratic approach to hate speech and yr buffet-style acceptance of what tyler says comes off as mealymouthed as tyler's justifications for saying it.

either hate on the whole thing or stfu

sorry to go thread hitler but i'm pro-queer and pro-woman and pro-tyler, i've got some complicated emotions y'all *sniff*

who are you even talking to

I think lex and steve tyler mostly

yeah i also got the impression that underrated is totally cool with misogyny

no, he doesn't want to engage the bitch argument cuz it's a lost cause, lex is cool with the misogyny but objects to the word faggot

dude read the thread why do I have to summarize for you

I'm glad pro tyler forces have found something to be morally self righteous about even if it involves arguing with arguments no one has made

He's bringing it up in a weird way, especially be throwing underrated into the mix, but its kind of a valid point. Also, lol @ deej always throwing people into some "pro-Tyler" cabal or something. I think as this thread has borne out, this is sort of a complicated issue and I don't think anyone itt is trying to unilaterally defend Tyler for everything he says.

i think people have only downplayed the use of the word 'bitch' in relation to the substantially more charged language involving rape

so maybe we need to talk about desensitization

I get where underrated's coming from when he says he doesn't want to get into the "bitch" argument cuz he thinks that ship has sailed but I dunno maybe in 15 years time when everybody's saying faggot he'll take a pass on that one too

then again I'm old and I remember a time when rap albums didn't have any curses on them

i specifically said tyler's misogyny bothered me more than his homophobia. the misogyny i'm "okay" with tends not to be based around violence or rape: the word "bitch" is far more normalised, and perhaps it shouldn't be, but i'd say it has actually been successfully reclaimed by women, in and out of hip-hop, as a potentially positive word. way more than faggot, at any rate. so it's not an exact parallel. as for objectification, it's yet another situation and the problem is culture-wide really - i don't really have a problem with objectification in individual pop/rap/whatever songs

so maybe we need to talk about desensitization

haha ok so NOW instead of talking about how desensitized young rappers throw around offensive words, you want to shift the conversation to listeners being so desensitized by OF's rape jokes and homophobic slurs that they're desensitized to OF saying "bitch"? fascinating, man, fascinating.

thanks for making up an argument for me, have fun with that straw man there

lex do you think the word "faggot" could get reclaimed?

I love how this thread is pretty much people talking across each other rather than to each other, but I guess thats pretty much ilx in a nutshell.

w/r/t "bitch", i can't think of a female rapper who doesn't use it as a positive term to describe herself and her female crew. one of the most prominent feminist publications around right now is called bitch. maybe 99% of all women i know use it. it's obviously completely different when a str8 male rapper uses it but even then i'm struck by how much it's used in a value-neutral sense, and often as the equivalent of "n*gga" - ie vicious slurs just used as substitutes for "men" and "women"

maybe "faggot" can be reclaimed but not by str8 dudes using it as a pejorative, which - whatever tyler's motivation - us the same ol' same ol'

that was just my best guess of whatever the hell "so maybe we need to talk about desensitization" meant, sorry

'Because I Got Uruk Hai'

― PG Harpy (Doran), Thursday, 12 May 2011 14:24 (30 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

'Me, My Elf And I'

― PG Harpy (Doran), Thursday, 12 May 2011 14:26 (28 minutes ago) Bookmark

Shadrach, Neshach, Wendigo.

I'd rather talk about desensitization in the macro sense - like going back to my point about rap songs not having any curses in them -> gangsta rap, constant use of bitch -> now everybody shrugs. maybe this just the way reclamation works in the 21st century?

and I'm not excusing his use of it but I don't think tyler's ever called a gay man a faggot, it provides something of a remove from its sluriness for me, whereas your run-of-the-mill misogynistic tough-guy rapper wouldn't think twice about calling a gay man a faggot. there's no lines here like eazy e's (selfhating?) "this is one faggot that I had to hurt".

underrated seems troubled by tyler's irl use of faggot but I'm guessing a lot of rappers call women bitches irl.

I dunno maybe irl they're all like "bitch? never! that would violate my code of literary license m'lady let me get the door for you"

I don't think tyler's ever called a gay man a faggot, it provides something of a remove from its sluriness for me, whereas your run-of-the-mill misogynistic tough-guy rapper wouldn't think twice about calling a gay man a faggot

at least give us an example of a tough-guy rapper amidst all these hazy hypotheticals

guy who uses the F-word on record, in interviews and on twitter 10 times as much as any "run-of-the-mill misogynistic tough-guy rapper" i can think of but it's all good because you know in your heart of hearts he wouldn't say it when it REALLY matters and they totally would

good thing our culture's desensitization to vulgarity is coupled with the massive sense of entitlement necessary to expect artists to be role models.

lex no shots fired but:

which is why the "it's just a word that 4chan kids use to piss off old squares" argument is so dumb, because it's a word that signifies old squares and old bigots to me, and using it so much just makes tyler seem totally regressive and like an old square himself.

w/r/t "bitch", i can't think of a female rapper who doesn't use it as a positive term to describe herself and her female crew. one of the most prominent feminist publications around right now is called bitch. maybe 99% of all women i know use it. it's obviously completely different when a str8 male rapper uses it but even then i'm struck by how much it's used in a value-neutral sense, and often as the equivalent of "n*gga" - ie vicious slurs just used as substitutes for "men" and "women"

this is an interesting argument, but...

there's a vast world of difference between women (and specifically, the women behind a feminist magazine) reclaiming the word "bitch" for their own use, and men using that language to aggressively degrade and threaten women. it's loosely comparable to the difference between people of color reclaiming racist language for their own purposes, and socially empowered whites using it in the form of hate speech.

this is precisely the problem with tyler's use of the word "faggot". if he were gay himself, then it would probably be much less objectionable. just as if he were a woman, his seeming misogyny might be less overwhelmingly offensive.

yeah i agree completely, hence "it's obviously completely different when a str8 male rapper uses it"

good thing our culture's desensitization to vulgarity is coupled with the massive sense of entitlement necessary to expect artists to be role models.

would say that there's some wiggle room between expecting artists to be "role models" and attaching moral weight to language

hence "it's obviously completely different when a str8 male rapper uses it"

fair enough. i read more equivocation than you intended into that paragraph and your prior post ("the word "bitch" is far more normalised, and perhaps it shouldn't be, but...")

no slam intended, all apologies